Speaker 0 00:04 Hi and welcome to. That makes total sense. The podcast where we talk about faith, finance and everyday life in a way that makes total sense. I'm your host Alexis BU city. On this podcast, you'll hear the personal stories of friends I'll be interviewing who are doing familiar things in new and innovative ways. We'll answer questions specifically about money and our relationship with it, and we'll explore faith and Bible teaching together in all of these. It's not about changing our convictions as much as it is about messing with our methods. We'll have a lot of moments here together where we pause and say, that makes total sense.
Speaker 0 00:44 Hi, I'm Alexis <inaudible> and welcome to that makes total sense. Today we have a very, very special guest on the podcast and that is dr Seth Posto. Dr pastel is a professor at the Israel college of the Bible and he also works with a fantastic organization called one for Israel, one for Israel, does outreach, evangelism, discipleship within the land of Israel to Jewish people and Arab people through really a great YouTube ministry. I encourage you to go and Google their videos. They're called <inaudible> Messiah and they just have some fantastic stories there of Jewish and Arab people who met Jesus and how their life has changed. A dr postal also is the author of several books, coauthor, and one of those books is called reading Moses seeing Jesus. And that book for me was a game changer. It came along at the right place, at the right time in my faith journey.
Speaker 0 01:47 So we talk about that book. We talk about sets a life in Israel with his family, with his children being in the army, um, his immigration from America. And really what I want you to leave this conversation, knowing and understanding is what hit me so hard when we had the chance to meet Seth a few months before this conversation, he told us, my husband and I, he told us that really the message that he wants to get across to people that the organization wants to get across to people is no matter who you are, everything you're looking for can be found in Jesus. So simple, so profound and so true. So I hope you enjoy this episode with dr Seth Posto.
Speaker 1 02:33 Hi everybody. Thank you again for joining us for that. Makes total sense. I am Alexis B city and I am here actually in a time zone difference right now. It is 8:00 AM and some change here in Houston, but I don't normally do interviews quite this early in the morning. I'm feeling like I need to drink the rest of my coffee, but my guest Seth post stele is in Israel this morning. So hi Seth, all the way in Israel.
Speaker 2 03:03 Well good afternoon from Israel. <inaudible>. Good morning to you in Texas.
Speaker 1 03:07 Thank you so, so much guys. This interview has been one that I have been anticipating for a little while. I met Seth last month, I guess it was. I had the privilege of meeting him at a fundraising dinner for an organization called one for Israel and this was the second year that my husband said and I have had the privilege of going and hosting a table and just doing our small, small part to help spread the word about what one for Israel is doing inside of the land of Israel to share the gospel with our Jewish brothers and sisters. So set, I love that you are in Israel, but I'm sure people may not have noticed you don't have an Israeli accent, which was one of the first things I noticed about you last month. So can you tell us how you got where you are?
Speaker 2 04:02 How I gotten my accent?
Speaker 1 04:03 <inaudible>
Speaker 2 04:05 we can be thankful that I've lost most of my accent because it was a New Jersey accent.
Speaker 1 04:10 Oh, there you go.
Speaker 2 04:12 So, um, like most of the population in Israel or a good majority of the population in Israel, um, we're in, we're a population of immigrants and so, you know, God said that he would regathered the Jewish people from all four corners of the planet. And um, and so I grew up in a Jewish family in the United States, uh, a reformed Jewish family. Uh, and I actually immigrated in 1993. I was 22 years old. Wow. Yeah. And so I've been here for, uh, half of my life, just about a little less than half of my life. I wish it were only half, but a little less than half of my life. Um, and, uh, so that's where the accident came from is uh, New Jersey. I, uh, but I, you know, like many of these rallies that are here, uh, Hebrew is my second language. It's not my first language, but for my children, it's their first language.
Speaker 1 05:08 Amazing. And how many kids do you have?
Speaker 2 05:11 So I have three children. I have a daughter actually, so I have a daughter that's just about to go into the army. Uh, she, she's going into the army next week because in Israel it's a mandatory military service. And so my daughter turned 18 and she's going to the army. I've got a son that's 15 years old and I have another son that's 10 years old.
Speaker 1 05:32 Right. And I, I think we should, we should say that because not all of our listeners have been to Israel or are aware of that. We, my husband and I have been, I guess we've been, uh, seven ish times together and my husband has been a couple of more times than I have for work and things like that. But, um, that was honestly one of my favorite things about visiting Israel. The first time was seeing all the soldiers. Um, so a little bit of context, the first time I went was in 2003 and I would say it, things were rough in the middle East, but I feel like yes, things that's kind of a consistent statement. Things are rough in the middle East. And so we had people who were a little nervous about us going. Um, but honestly seeing the soldiers out made me feel really safe. Um, but at the same time, you know, I was there at age 21 and realizing it was super, it was hard realizing, Oh my goodness, these, most of these guys are younger than I am. Um, or they're barely my age and when they're my age, they're, they're finished. So what's the requirement? Just tell everyone for context, because this is, every citizen has to do this when they become a Baije.
Speaker 2 06:46 Yes. So, um, when, when young people turn 18 years old, when they finish high school, uh, they have a mandatory military service and that's everybody. So you're talking guys and girls, uh, for the guys they served the ma, their mandatory service is three years. And for the girls it's two and a half years. Uh, and then depending on what, what jobs they get within the army, sometimes they have to serve longer depending on, you know, yeah. Depending on the jobs that they do.
Speaker 1 07:21 And, and we met a lot of guys that we met before they went into service and then we were able to stay in contact with them when they were in the army and then when they came out. And, um, I just think it's culturally, it's a really, I know some people may think it's, it sounds scary or it sounds odd or something like this, but I just feel like culturally, um, there are ways that, that, that's really beautiful that everyone has that, that service there.
Speaker 2 07:48 So, um, there, there was actually a book that was written about seven or eight years ago called the startup nation. Um, and the premise of the book was actually that one of the keys to Israel's amazing success as a young nation and, and technology, um, in, in medicine and computers was mandatory military service because in essence, in essence, um, if you think about it, a mandatory military service, uh, Israel every year has a, a system for identifying among all those going into the army. They have a system for identifying Israel's very finest, and then they give Israel's very finest, um, tools, uh, training, specialized training, uh, in technology, for instance, in cyber and medicine. And these young people then go off and, and go into the real world with amazing skills that they've acquired. And, and they've received a lot of res, you know, responsibility at a very young age. Just so you kind of get a sense
Speaker 3 08:56 of this. So the U S military, U S military is a professional military, and it's also volunteer military. So every year, whenever, whenever Israelis joined the military, or sorry, whenever United States citizens join the military, the United States military then tries to identify the best of those who have volunteered, right. And Israel every year, they identify the best. And when I'll say the best, I'm saying people that are talented in certain areas and then, and so on that level, um, I think the military is an amazing opportunity to get great training. That's on one level. Another level is that, uh, you know, for three years, two and a half years, you're actually with a very diverse group of people that you would never get to know a normal life. And so you have religious and secular, you have messianic Jews and non messianic Jews. You've got, you know, Ethiopian Jews and, and Moroccan Jews and Polish Jews and you, you, you, you come together for a period of, of kinda, you all eat dirt together and, and so it gives you a real strong tie to the land of Israel, to the people of Israel.
Speaker 3 10:10 Such a very uniting experience. And not to mention that if you take say your average American that's 18 years old and your average Israeli that's 18 years old, they're both pretty immature, but then you take the average, you know, 21 year old American, the average 21 year old Israeli and you're already looking at many kids. ACE is night and day because by that point I'm this 21 year old Israeli may have gone through officer's training, commander's training has had to make decisions of life and death has seen very difficult situations. And so, um, the military is an amazing experience. It's not an easy experience. And you know, to be honest, there is a sense in which it's also a grievous situation that 70 75 years after the Holocaust that Jewish people still have to do mandatory military service because our, our, our existence is, is that threat. And that's very sad.
Speaker 1 11:06 It is. Yes. I 100% agree with that. That's, it's, it's one of those things where you have to, you have to see the benefits for something when it is mandatory like that and can't just look at it as it being this, this grievous thing like you're saying that it is. But, but the, what we have seen personally from friends that we, that were there, it's, um, they're the, the friends that we have, they're not resentful. They grow up knowing that this is something they do. Their parents did it. Um, my husband's advisor for his doctorate program, um, is in Israeli, um, who was, you know, he lives in the States. He has us citizenship now, but he fought in the six day war. And, um, and it's just these, these incredible, incredible stories. This is history reliving history. You guys are living history, um, these, these soldiers. It's just, it's amazing. So your daughter is headed there next week, so this is amazing. We will be praying for her and um, and then you, and so what are you doing? You immigrated all this time ago and I'm sure that you have lots of stories that you could tell, but where has this led you? Where are you now with one for Israel? And then I'll let, I'll let you tell everyone what your actual job is, what your position is. Cause it's really exciting to me.
Speaker 2 12:33 Well, I can just simply say that, you know, growing up, uh, in the United States, I never actually thought of living in Israel, even though my sister, when I was a little boy, she came to Israel and she considered moving here and then decided, you know, she was very homesick and she came back up to the United States. And so never in my wildest imagination that I think that I would stay and live in Israel. Um, but you know, when I was 22 years old and just coming to this land and just really having an overwhelming sense as you said, that, um, we're living, we're, we're living something miraculous. There's something here that just can't be explained by human logic. And I just, uh, you know, could not imagine myself living anywhere else on the planet. And, um, you know, at 20, 22 years old, I immigrated at 23 years old. I had gone to the army. Um, and then after my, yeah, after my army service, I ended up, uh, going down, uh, to a little city called a lot, which is on the red sea.
Speaker 1 13:42 Oh. Do you know that I've been to a lot.
Speaker 2 13:44 Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 13:46 Vacation to there. Yeah. It's amazing. It's beautiful.
Speaker 2 13:49 So when I was in a lot, they ended up, uh, I ended up staying at, it was a messianic hostable Christian youth hostel and became enamored by the work there and the things that were going on. And, um, just started to really study the word of God in earnest and eventually met my wife there. Uh, my wife is from Hong Kong, originally grew up in a Buddhist family and, uh, we met in is we met in Israel. And just to make a very long story short, um, I was invited to teach a, a discipleship course for Israelis, uh, just coming out of the army and Israelis just going into the army. So just before their army service and just after their army service. And I was asked to teach a course on the Torah, a survey of the Torah. And it was during that time, this was in 2000 that I, I actually, um, started to really study carefully the book of Moses, the five books of Moses of as you call it.
Speaker 2 14:58 And that really began, became for me a life's calling. Um, I just, I started to read, started to study, realized that I was lacking some tools, ended up going and um, studying with a, a, a fairly well known evangelical, um, old Testament scholar by the name of John sail hammer. And long story short, when I finished my doctorate, um, it was time for us to come back to Israel and it was the most natural thing for us to come to one for Israel. Uh, they have a Bible college, one for Israel, Bible college. And so I've been here since 2011 and, you know, Israel, Israel, Bible college or one for Israel. Uh, we've really been sort of in the last, in the last eight or nine years, we've experienced sort of startup growth. There's been a lot of changes here at, at the school and at the ministry. Uh, we, we have a television studio now, so we're doing videos, uh, uh, gospel videos in Hebrew and in Arabic. Uh, we've got 30% of our Israeli students are Arabs. Um, and so we've had tremendous growth over the last nine or 10 years.
Speaker 1 16:15 Okay. So let me go ahead. I was going to say, let me pause for a second because I missed it. So I'm afraid some of our listeners may have missed it too. When did you become a believer, grew up reform in New Jersey, and then did that happen at that hostel or did you go to the hostile because you were already a believer?
Speaker 2 16:35 I had, I went to the hostel having come to faith and so, Oh yeah. And so for me, coming to faith was, you know, it was quite an amazing experience because it kind of opened my eyes to everything that it meant to be Jewish. And it gave me a love for studying the scriptures. It gave me a love for Israel. It gave me a love for, for my history. And so,
Speaker 1 16:56 and how close were you when you came to faith?
Speaker 2 16:59 That's a complicated answer because it came, came periods. Um, but, um, I would say in my, my mid to late teen years is when I really, really came to the, you know, affirm, conclusion that Messiah and uh, yeah.
Speaker 1 17:18 Are you the only one in your family of origin who is okay. Okay. Okay. So I mean, so, so because I feel like that's some of the, and some of your one for Israel videos show that, right. Where there's sometimes this backlash, um, with, um, is with Jewish families when one member or, or one or two members, um, come to bathing your shoe out or Jesus. And so who, who else in your family? I mean, can we come, can we talk about that for just a second? Cause I, cause that's really interesting. It's like from this reform Jewish guy in New Jersey to a believer in issue it to Israeli evangelism.
Speaker 2 18:03 Yeah. So, so anyway, my, my, um, just to give a little family background, my mom lost about half of her family in the Holocaust. There was, her family is from Poland and so her father was from Poland. And so her father immigrated to the United States, I think it was the 1920s, with along with three of his brothers and sisters, three or four, but the rest of the 13, you know, they, they, they all stayed in Poland. And so all of, all of those uncles and aunts and cousins, they died in the Holocaust. And of course, the assumption is that, you know, that this was done by Christians and, and, and then my father as a child, um, grew up, uh, was born in Canada, moved to the United States, has a very early childhood memories of being beaten up by kids in, in, in another neighborhood and calling him Christ killer.
Speaker 2 19:01 And so, and so in my family, when, when, when dad was, when dad was angry, you know, he had a pretty good repertoire of curse words when he was really angry. There was only one word that expressed that anger better than any other, and that was Jesus Christ. So that was sort of, that was in a name that was, uh, was a terrible name in our family. And, um, my mom, my mom, uh, in the late 1970s, started to, um, seek, and that's also an in and of itself, a very long story. But, um, over the course of several years, she started to study the scriptures to read the Bible and came to the conclusion that Jesus has to be the Jewish Messiah. My father was very hurt. He cried. He said, I thought I married a Jew. He felt he prayed. Um, and then over the next, the course of the next couple of years, my dad, um, my dad was <inaudible> my dad. The big issue is that he thought that my mom had converted to Catholicism and he thought she'd become a trader. You know, one of them, one of those that he came up and the crusaders and
Speaker 1 20:18 absolutely. Yeah. All of it's valid. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 20:22 So, um, after a period of about three or four years when you realized that mom had changed for the better, um, and that, you know, she wasn't burning incense to statues. He said, okay, I see that you're, um, I see that you're, something's good as happened to you. I see that you're still Jewish. You know, why do you believe in Jesus but don't show me the new Testament. Because for him, that was an antisemitic book is forbidden book. So mom read to my day 53 and he got, he got very angry and he said to her, I told you I didn't want to hear the new Testament. And so she said, you know, Marie, this is our side of the book. Wow. Long story short, my dad went through a period of a few months of just really wrestling and you know, I was, I was in my early teens at that point.
Speaker 2 21:14 And, uh, I professed faith in your shoe, uh, uh, already, you know, at a pretty young age, at the age of 12. But, but I had some really rough years, some really, really rough years. And, um, it was, it was, you know, in my mid to late twenties teens where I really, um, I came to experience the love of God. I think up until up until there was a point in which I, I understood that Jesus was the Messiah. I understood that he died for my sins, but I was also very aware that I was a rotten sinner and that I could not. Um, there was no, as hard as I tried to be a follower of Yeshua, uh, I found it was impossible and went against everything. It went against all my habits. It went against my nature. It went against everything that nothing worked for me.
Speaker 2 22:10 So it worked for everybody else, but it didn't work for me. And you know, it was, there was a moment in time where I recognize that, that you shoe, are you shoe a paid at all? There was a moment in time when I recognize that issue. I came for sinners. I was the, there was a moment in time when I realized that his love was unconditional. Um, you know, we're coming up to Yom Kippor now. So just resting in the finished work of my high priest, resting in the perfect sacrifice. And, and that was a very life changing experience for me. And you know, at that point I started to become more bold in my faith. I started to want to understand my faith. I wanted to, you know, to really study as best I could and to ground my faith in the scriptures. And so, uh, this, this whole story has led me, you know, through many paths and up and down mountains and Hills and valleys.
Speaker 2 23:10 And, you know, in my wildest dreams, I never would have imagined that I would be in Israel. Uh, it's a privilege to be here and of course, uh, excited to be in a place, you know, one for Israel, which is just one of the most dynamic dynamic ministries, um, that I, that I know of and impart not only because of what what's happening among the Jewish people in Israelis here, but to be honest, also the fact that, um, to come in contact with our ministry is also to learn to love the arrows and to love the Palestinians to realize that they need to show
Speaker 3 23:46 up just as much as the Jewish people and that he's the buffer for both of our peoples.
Speaker 1 23:51 Amen. Thank you Seth for sharing that story. I am like trying to hold it together on the other side here, but I mean something that when you said when, when it finally hit you, you know, when it, when it finally hit you. And I think there was a point in my life when I was speaking with a really a really trusted person in my life and, and I was telling her that every day I just, I would pray that I could please God. And she said, I'm not going to tell you that's a bad thing, but would you pause that? Consider pausing that prayer for a little while and instead just for a little while, every day, start praying that you could experience God's love instead of saying, God, how can I please you? Just ask him, how can I experience your love today? And eventually for me, cause I'm hardheaded and, and hard-hearted in some of those ways. When it finally started to hit me, just like you were saying, been a believer for awhile, but when it finally started to hit me, this is it. God's love is unconditional. This is all I need.
Speaker 3 25:03 Well, you know, it's really interesting and you know, I think at some point we may talk about it, but when we talk about your shoe size, the fullness of the fullness and the fulfillment of the Torah, um, you know, it's really interesting when you think of, you show us and come to me all who are wearing heavy Laden and I will give you rest. And really the most fundamental aspect of Israel is God's covenant with Israel, at least under Sinai was rest. And what's really significant about that is if you even see the significance of the Sabbath in context it, it has, it emphasizes two things. Number one, the creation of the world and number two, Israel's redemption from Egypt. Now, what's phenomenal about this rest then is that it's a focus not on what we do for God, but what God has done for us. Our relationship is our relationship to the God of Israel is rooted in what he has done for us, not what we do for him. And we, it was just the realization that after your show, I made sacrifice for sins. He sat down as the right hand. The father priest don't ever sit down, but you sure did sit down. And so it was just coming into the finished work that there was nothing I needed to add. There was nothing I needed to do. Um, I'm going to say something controversial here, but then let me explain.
Speaker 1 26:31 Say yes, I'm ready.
Speaker 3 26:33 I believe wholeheartedly that we're saved by works, but not our own works. We're saved by God's works. We are saved by works, we're saved by faith in the works of God. And as long as we get that straight, we'll have rest in the finished work of Messiah.
Speaker 1 26:52 Oh that's so good. It's so good. And, and you know, you said, well we'll talk about it at some point. I say let's talk about it now. We can talk about one for Israel and we can talk about the Bible college and we can talk about all of those things. But I do want to give people some context. So when Seth and I met last month, I had just finished reading and I'm going to post these in the, in the show notes and links to these because Seth has written, you were, you were an author on, on those three books, is that correct? That all three books, that one for Israel's published right now.
Speaker 3 27:27 So no. So the one book that, the book, so eight tons written a couple of books with help. And so I've, the book that I've written is called reading. Moses seen Jesus. And so eight on an I, you know, I kind of dealt with the theological side of things and the, you know, the whole aspect of what does the Torah mean a ton focused on uh, rabbinic traditions and the Hebrew roots movement. And then ed is focused on, okay then what does that mean? Uh, what does it mean for Jewish believers? How, what does it look like to live out our faith as messianic believers here in Israel? So, so it was the three of us that worked on the book,
Speaker 1 28:08 right? So there, there are, there are three books that one for Israel has published. The first one that I read is the one that you're talking about, which is reading Moses, seeing Jesus. And I just want to tell everyone who's listening. It's, it's, it's not a terribly long book but it is incredibly rich. It is incredibly dense. And I read this book in one day, I read it in a, in a work day essentially. Um, and then when my husband got home from work, I told him after I had screenshotted and sent him probably 10 or 20 passages cause I was reading from my Kindle, I said, um, I told him you have to read this book before you go to bed. It was so incredibly life changing for me. And I have highlighted just this little portion and it's from the beginning and I, if it's okay with you, said I want to read just this little paragraph, um, because I've got it highlighted in, in two colors.
Speaker 1 29:15 And I think that the, the one color that I have, it's separate from all the other ones. Will is touches on what you just said. Um, so yeah, so this, this, I would say in the context of Judaism and the context of Christianity in the context of messianic Judaism, in the context of Hebrew roots, believers and unbelievers, this is, in my opinion, this is, this is true, this is real, but it's kind of like you say, slightly controversial. So, um, here we go. But it says many people read the Torah through the lens of rabbinic Judaism in which the Torah is understood to be a law book. To follow the Torah is to keep the commandments of the Sinai covenant. We, so the authors of this book you and eats on an Erez. We disagree with this common assumption. Rather, our thesis about the purpose of the Torah Genesis through Deuteronomy is that it is an historical narrative whose purpose is to lead Israel through the broken law and beyond, namely to the Messiah who Moses assures his readers will come in the last days.
Speaker 1 30:25 Now this next sentence is highlighted in different color to be faithful followers of the Torah. And our view is to believe in your Shoua. See John five 39 through 47 we defend this thesis by looking at several key passages in the Torah, but that that is what you're talking about. To be faithful followers of the Torah in our view is to believe Yeshua. And, and something we've been talking about at our house lately is we feel like there, there are kind of these two ways that are kind of a reciprocal of each other. We can read the entire Bible through the filter of Jesus or we can read. So we can read the Torah through the filter of Jesus. Or we can read everything through the filter of the Torah. But there are two different, there are two different things to do. So we can say your shoe, it is, it, he is all that we need. Or I feel like sometimes we say your shoe, it is the one who points us back to the Torah, which is the thing. And I think my argument and your argument might be Jesus is the thing.
Speaker 3 31:39 Yeah. So I maybe I might even put it a little differently and I would just simply say this. When you, when you, when you think about Jesus, his discussion with the religious leaders, and in John chapter five, um, he makes quite a claim. He says that, um, I won't accuse you before the father. It'll be Moses. Because if you would have believed Moses, you would believe me because Moses testified, or he wrote about me. But you didn't believe Moses. So you don't believe me. So the bottom line is this, as I understand it, um, the problem with Orthodox Judaism is not that they believe in Moses and they don't believe in Jesus, and we have no longer believe in Moses and now we believe in Jesus. In fact, as I understand it, is that, that Jesus would say the reason that meant that Orthodox Jews don't believe in Jesus is they don't believe in Moses.
Speaker 1 32:42 Oh, right. The emphasis there. Yeah.
Speaker 3 32:46 In other words, most Christians think about, you know, the Torah is a different religion. Oh, that's the old Testament. And you've got the new Testament, which is Christianity. But I would say that's a complete misrepresentation of Jesus. In other words, I honestly believe not just in terms of a faith commitment, that's a part of it, but also as an intellectual understanding that a faithful reading of the Torah leads us to an expectation of the coming of the Messiah. Faithful of the Torah leads us to a place where Moses assures us that Israel will break the Sinai covenant. Here's us hints at this. Cynthia, at the introduction to the tour in Genesis one through 11 he's crystal clear about it. At the end of the Torah and Deuteronomy 30 and 31 you will break the covenant, but then in 30 after 30 verse six he says, but at some point when you're in the XL, God will bring you back and you will love the Lord your God with all your heart.
Speaker 3 33:50 Why? Because he will circumcise your hearts. Well, that is Jeremiah's new covenant. In other words, the message of the Torah, if we're a faithful reader of the Torah, is that that ultimately, even though we will break the Sinai covenant, there's a better covenant coming. Even though we failed to follow Moses in the wilderness, there's going to come a prophet like Moses who far surpasses Moses that will redeem us from another exile. He will save us, he will bless us, and through him God will accomplish his blessings to all nations. And so again, as I, as I understand, the Torah, a faithful reading of the Torah is to lead us to new covenant realities. I don't see it as a, I don't see a I, yeah. Again, as you, as you shared within many context and message Judaism, they understand that, you know, you come to the assure who brings us back to Sinai. Right. But I see that the backward reading the train goes the other direction when we sign I carefully mean leads us to the Messiah.
Speaker 1 35:04 Right, right. Yeah. It's, it's, it's so good. And, and I don't know why I just thought of this, I actually had do probably is, cause I've been meditating on this passage for weeks now, but I feel like even with Gentile readers who read may read the Torah and they say, ah, they, you know, they look at, at, at the God that's represented in the Torah, in their eyes, and they say, Oh my goodness, this is brutal. Or, Oh my goodness, this is, they, they, they have these, um, this understanding based on the things that they see in the Torah based on the things that you know, are hard for us to swallow as a contemporary society. Um, and they kind of see this as, I don't know, like as two different gods or there's this Jewish God and then there's Jesus or something. But I have been meditating my heart recently in John 14 when you shoe it says to fill it floats, it will show us the father right books to show us the father.
Speaker 1 36:06 And he says, if you've seen me, you've seen the father. And I just think everything we know about Jesus, all of his love, all of his forgiveness, all of his mercy, all of his compassion, all of his healing, everything we saw in Jesus, we ch, when we trust him and when we believe him. And when we see him, we can say with full confidence, we have seen the father. We don't necessarily understand everything that was going on. I'm no Bible scholar, but if I know anything, I know that if I've seen Jesus, I have seen a full representation of God the father, and I know who he is because I've seen Jesus.
Speaker 3 36:52 So when you think about the tourist story, and again, I think what's really, really emphasized in our book is that the tour is a story. It's a narrative where the laws, you have to understand the laws within the context of the storyline. But what's really quite spectacular about the Torah is that even within the Sinai covenant, you have this amazingly gracious God who anticipated that Israel would fail and so gave them a sacrificial system, right? Right. One of the most amazing revelations of the God of the nature of God in the old Testament is that he's merciful and compassionate, slow to anger and abounding in mercy, right? Right. It's a famous verse. Where does that verse first appear? It appears that the golden calf narrative, and so where sin abounded, uh, there grace abounded all the more. And so even within the sacrificial system, you see an amazingly gracious God who longs to dwell with his people.
Speaker 3 37:50 Uh, unfortunately the tabernacle was only a copy. It was not the real thing. And God's presence was, was in some ways, uh, God's presence with his people was often mitigated by their sin, even though God wants to dwell with us. And so, you know, you see this beautiful picture and it is interesting. The Torah presents kind of a paradox. So in Leviticus one, one God comes from Mount Sinai and he, he moves into the tabernacle. He moves into the Holy of Holies. Okay? So in Leviticus one, one God is dwelling in the tabernacle. But then in Deuteronomy 26, 15, Moses prays to God who dwells in heaven. So what's beautiful that you actually have this amazing picture of the God who dwells in heaven. Heaven simultaneously puts on tent to dwell with humanity without ceasing to be the one God overall. And so you shoe a, when you talk about, you've seen, you, you know, if you've seen, you've seen the father.
Speaker 3 38:53 So it says in John one 14 that the word of God tabernacled among us without we seem to be God overall. And so the beautiful thing, man, is that, you know, Sinai, you know this, this shadow, albeit imperfect shadow of, of continual sacrifices made us long for that day of the one final and complete sacrifice. You know, that's the beautiful thing about Sinai when we read it and its larger context is that even in meditating on Sinai, it ought to give us a Hardy faith in Yeshua. It's not like I study the laws to become more Orthodox in that sense or become more religious. I study the laws in the Torah in order to appreciate even more the, the final work of Messiah as, as, as sacrifice to our fullness.
Speaker 1 39:50 Right. Can you tell us, this is so good. Can you tell us why? Like why did you guys write this book? I mean there's a lot, there's a lot and you guys say it in the introduction. This is, this is not the first point of discussion. There's a lots of stuff out there on these topics, but why did you guys as a team feel the need to write this book, which is incredible. I'll say it again, which is an incredible book by the way. But what, what, what, why did you guys feel like you needed to put in your, your part into this discussion?
Speaker 3 40:26 Yeah. So, you know, obviously we, this whole discussion of the Hebrew roots and you know, pleasing God and you know, arguments among believers about what days the Sabbath, is it Sunday? Is it Saturday? Um, we were getting lots of emails about the Sabbath, lots of email about kosher, should I keep kosher? Should I not keep kosher? Uh, one email we got was from a woman who said that her husband, she and her husband had gone down the path of Hebrew roots. And at first it was pleasant and encouraging. And then at some point her husband ended up denying the faith and joined a synagogue and converted to Judaism and
Speaker 1 41:07 right. Denying in the science, which is what you'll be on, right? Yeah,
Speaker 3 41:10 correct, correct. And eventually, then she started to question whether her faith in Jesus is even necessary. And so we just felt that, you know, there were so many, so many questions focused on the law and, and we felt that, you know, there needed to be a book that presented a position that really the Torah as a book,
Speaker 1 41:35 right? Yeah.
Speaker 3 41:37 The Torah as a book and seeks to carefully engage with its message and to try to show that this whole movement of, you know, of bringing us back to, in order to please God, we have to keep the Sabbath in order to please God. We have to keep kosher. That we wanted to show that that's actually a misreading of, of the Torah itself. And so we wanted to set out to show exegetically but carefully interpreting the text that when you read the Torah, the Torah carefully, um, it ultimately leads you to a better covenant, a better high priest, a better sacrifice. And, and so that's what we were, that's what we were trying to accomplish. And, um, you know, we dealt with some of these questions about the Sabbath and about kosher and, and, and why, um, why it is that how it is that the Sabbath, the mosaic Sabbath points to something beyond itself and better than itself.
Speaker 3 42:40 Why it is that the food laws, um, that food can no longer make us unclean in God's eyes, that you shoe a sacrifice actually dealt once and for all with our ritual impurity. And so now we're no longer having to keep ourselves away from God's dwelling place because we're ritually defiled by foods, by skin diseases, by monthly cycles or you know, whatever that you show a sacrifice, not only dealt finally with our transgression, but he actually dealt finally completely with our, our uncleanness. And so now we can boldly before the throne of grace being cleaned and cleansed. And so you know, and then we do deal with this in the book that they're, you know, if, if you're going to keep food laws because you want to be sensitive to your family, do you live in Israel and you just, you know, you don't want, you want to be sensitive to your surroundings. Well that's one thing. But if you're wanting to keep these because you believe that you become defiled, if you eat the wrong foods and then not only you know, then then we would see this as a compromise of the gospel. It's a misunderstanding of the finished work of our Messiah.
Speaker 1 43:54 I feel like, I feel like I could use for you to say for me, I feel like I could use for you to say that again. It's a compromise and a misunderstanding of the gospel.
Speaker 3 44:07 So let me, let me, actually, let me, let me touch on this one because I think it's really important. So when we deal with this in the book, so one of the principles of good Bible interpretation is taking everything in context. You can never take anything out of context. And so the food laws appear two times, two different places in the Torah, right? The first time is the Leviticus 11 will the context, Leviticus 11 is really important. Leviticus 11 begins a whole series of laws that deal with a clean and unclean. Leviticus 11 clean and unclean foods, Leviticus 12, uh, things with women that make her clean and unclean. Leviticus 13, 14, 15 issues with men that make them unclean issues with homes that make them unclean, right? And so if you're going to argue that you know that we have to keep these food laws based on the <inaudible> 11, then you have to be consistent and saying, I'm sorry to be a little bit crude, that a woman who has a monthly cycle is uncleaned for a period of time.
Speaker 3 45:12 In other words, you have to be consistent with the context. But really what's interesting is that these, you know, these laws of clean and unclean, Leviticus 11, 12, 13, 14, and 15 lead you ultimately to, and next week we're going to be dealing with this, the day of atonement, right? In the David parliament, the high priest went in and he dealt once a year, not just with sins and transgressions, but it also says with Israel's uncleanness, the original contamination that entered in as a result of uncleaned foods as a result of skin diseases as a result of blood and, and, and, and things that, that ritually defiled. Okay. And then ritually defiled a copy of heavenly realities. Okay. So who are comms? Hebrews nine talks about that when you show up came, he didn't just deal with those things that were, you know, things that dealt with the purification of the flesh, but he, his sacrifice dealt once and for all, and for all time with ritual impurity, so that at all times and at any given moment, whether we're Jew and Gentile, we can come boldly before the throne of grace, his sacrifice dealt with ritual and cleanness once and for all.
Speaker 3 46:37 And therefore to say that food defiles me and makes me unclean and God's presence is to actually to belittle the sacrifice of Yeshua. Wow. Compromise the gospel if I choose to keep, you know, if I choose to keep kosher again because I want to be sensitive to my family, I want to be sensitive to my surroundings. Uh, that I, that you know, for missiological purposes, for sociological purposes, uh, that is completely fine and every man and according to his conscience. But the moment that we put on this an issue of sanctification, we've totally misunderstood the point. Leviticus 11 where the food lion fall food laws first appear, and we totally miss the realities of the new covenant. And you show up as our great high priest who sacrifice covers all of our ritual impurities.
Speaker 1 47:35 Oh, it's so good. It's so, it's so good. And you, um, you explained it so well. I just want to say an encouragement to get the book because like you said, you, you, you come at this from an an exegetical place. But I would say it's so readable though, to the lay person. I mean, I have a master's degree is not in Bible. And I read this because I feel like you guys, I feel like there's three guys who are way smarter than me who understand this and can put this in a language that not only is understandable, but it is checkable, if that makes sense. Right? Like I, I don't have a Bible in Greek, but I read the Bible every day. And so when I, when I looked at this, I'm going, Oh my goodness. And I, I, I've found myself turning the book into a Bible study for myself, right? Going through rereading some of these passages that were familiar and um, and then putting them in, in exited local context that you guys put them in, but ultimately for that purpose to say your shoe, it did it. Jesus did it all once and for all, once and for all people, Jews, Gentiles, Arabs, everybody and once and for all time.
Speaker 3 48:47 Exactly. You know, one of the things that we tried to do and we really tried to do this, is that we wanted to show by careful reading of the Torah, just looking at what the Torah actually says that you, you come to very new Testament conclusions before the new Testament. And then in doing that, we also hope to show or to shed some light on many of the things that Paul writes in collagen's two 16, don't let anybody judge you about Sabbaths and, and, and new moons and festivals and feasts that are shadows of a greater reality, right? Or Hebrews that talks about the law is a shadow of greater realities. And so hopefully what we've done in the book is not only explained the meaning of the Torah, uh, within the context of the tour, but actually to shed light and give more appreciation and deeper passion for, for the very points that Paul comes to and to understand how the new Testament understands the new covenant, how the new Testament understands the Sinai covenant, how the new Testament understands, uh, that a careful reading of the Torah leads us to the Messiah.
Speaker 1 50:00 It does it does that. And when you said, when you said, Paul, I think this is, I think, let me see if I can say this as, as well as I want to. When you started off talking about, um, the Hebrew roots and people, people get drawn to this because they see, um, a valid richness in the Jewish history of faith in Jesus. Um, and it's valid. Um, but what I love about what you guys have done in the book, and really because I feel like what you, as I've done in the book is a, in a way, it's a continuation, right, of what Paul did, where we say, yes, there is a richness that it, it should kind of arou something in Gentile believers to say, this isn't ancient faith. This goes way back. But Paul as a Jewish scholar, was able to explain what the richness actually is and that it is the richness, what you're feeling and the richness. The richness is an anticipation of the Messiah. And I feel like you guys do that.
Speaker 3 51:09 So what's interesting is many times in the Hebrew roots movement, loving the Torah amounts to loving commandments per se in keeping commandments. And what we tried to do is to show that loving the Torah is actually understanding the extent to which it makes us appreciate who you show it is and what he's done. So that that's a more faithful reading of the Torah. We don't want to stop loving the Torah. In fact, the shoe ought to make us love the Torah more because we then appreciate far more who he is and what he's done
Speaker 1 51:47 or more who he is. That's right. It's, it's just so good. It's, it's, it's so incredible. And I actually did not know, didn't really even think we would talk about the book this much. But I'm glad we are. Um, I'm glad we're talking about it because I think it's important. I think it's important for, um, you know, we have seen that there is, um, and you guys talk about, so maybe next we can get to kind of some of the things you guys are doing in one for Israel, but talking about, we're in a special time in history. I believe we're in a special time in history. You guys talk about it. I actually was going to mention it when you were talking about your mom and say, I don't know if she would identify herself as one who came in with the Jesus movement, kind of what we call, you know, they call it the Jesus movement back in the 70s when we saw a lot of young people, um, getting saved, a lot of Jewish people, um, particularly getting saved and then, and then coming to faith.
Speaker 1 52:39 And then what did that look like? Because these guys didn't fit, a lot of them didn't fit. And then here we are, you know, 40, almost 50 years later again, um, I believe we're in a special time in history where we'll talk about this in a moment. You guys are seeing lots of people inside of Israel, um, having a curiosity about Jesus. And at the same time, we're having a lot of Gentiles having a curiosity about the Torah. And so we're kind of seeing these things kind of happen simultaneously. So I think that what you've done with this book is an answer. In part, it's an answer to these Gentile believers who know Jesus. But having a curiosity for the Torah. And in the book you do also say, this is also written for our Jewish brothers and sisters, believers and unbelievers who would have these same questions because they grew up in Hebrew school.
Speaker 1 53:36 Many of them, they grew up knowing and loving and, and parading the Torah as, as this is a part of culture. And so what does it look like for them? Um, but then you guys at one for Israel are answering this question too of if this, if the Torah is leading us to your shoe, uh, then what does that look like? Does your shoe a really lead us back to the Torah? And so tell us kind of what you guys are doing to answer those questions for specifically for Israeli people, Jewish and Arabs. But let's maybe focus on the Jewish people first.
Speaker 2 54:12 So just maybe a word really quickly about, you know, one for Israel. You think in terms of one for Israel has two arms. There's, there's the evangelistic arm, which is making the Messiah known to Jews and Arabs in a culturally relevant way, uh, through media. Um, and then you've got the other arm, which would be training, which would be our Bible college in our seminar, our seminary. Now in terms of the, in terms of the, the evangelistic component of our vision, it just so happens that Israel are 60% online more than the average American
Speaker 1 54:52 logistical crazy cause we're online a lot. We're
Speaker 2 54:56 the number one consumer of YouTube per capita in the world. Wow. Um, and so, you know, Israelis are, are very much online. And so the realization was that if your message is not an HD quality in three minute little videos, it's not that you're irrelevant, you just simply don't exist. And of course there's, and of course there, there's a bit of a cyber war here, so you've got this religious component of a group of people that, you know, they're really, they're driven here in Israel to make sure that Israelis do not hear the gospel. And so, and, and they, they work night and day to make sure that that doesn't happen or they try and the internet was kind of a game changer because suddenly, suddenly, rather than trying to get into neighborhoods or whatever, you're in everybody's home, uh, through the internet. And it gives people the privacy of just looking and searching and reading and studying for themselves.
Speaker 2 55:56 Um, and so the message that the message that we give is always going to be, um, dealing with issues that Jewish people, uh, in Hebrew and in Arabic with what Muslims struggle with, questions about the faith for Jewish people. Uh, it's, it's, you know, issues of, you know, uh, messianic prophecy. It could be, you know, you have an atheistic and a materialistic crowd that, you know, for them it might be the existence of God or you know, it, it in some cases it could be, uh, theological questions does, you know, what does it mean to believe that you show up? Is God, how do, how do you know, how does that work? Um, so, so these are the, these are the types of videos we're putting out that are very much the only with the kinds of questions that Israelis have. And what's remarkable is that, you know, you know, since doing these videos, we've, we've had, I believe, I think close to I think, close to 20 million views in Israel.
Speaker 2 57:02 Okay. Well, obviously people are, yeah, people are viewing this. Some of the people are obviously viewing these videos several times, but, but the numbers are just disproportionate to the population itself, which is only 9 million. And so you shoe a, Jesus has become very much a public discussion now. Um, and not just among secular Israelis. You also have, you know, we constantly get emails. We constantly get text messages also from religious people that are reading and are studying and, and dealing with the materials themselves and coming to the same conclusion. So we could say in some ways Israel isn't that we may not be having a revival, but we're definitely having a viable,
Speaker 1 57:49 yeah, I love that. You know, so just, just for a little bit of context. So, um, I started traveling to Israel back in 2003 was my first trip and for a while, um, we were going every year, just a group of our college friends. We were going every year or spending a few weeks. Every time we went. We did very little touring and mostly we tried to focus on ministry. We partnered with some, with some ministries there and the land, um, in Tel Aviv mostly, um, at some in Jerusalem. Um, but in the evenings when we weren't working with those ministries, you know, coffee shops in bookstores and things like that, we would go to the beach in Tel Aviv and we would just start playing music. Now I will say to give this, I know that you are used to it because you've lived in Israel for so long, but for an American who came over, when you were saying that there were at the beginning when you were just describing and you were saying the importance of being online, partially because of the people who are trying to prevent the spread of the gospel.
Speaker 1 58:55 This is no joke. I mean back then you can probably remember, so this is, you know, 15, 16 years ago, we first started going, our pastors said, okay, listen, we're probably going to come up against, or not against, but we're going to come in contact with some people who identify themselves as anti missionaries. And just that phrasing was like, why? And he said, anti missionaries, listen, we have to be careful. We need to be sure that if anybody is talking to us, especially if they're a teenager, that they're asking us questions first, that we're not the ones, you know, promoting this. And, and even with adults, um, you know, we're going, if we're, if we were, you know, we would go to, um, like we would be in Dizengoff or something and Tel Aviv and, and, you know, just playing, playing music would draw a crowd, then we would start to talk to people about you shoe.
Speaker 1 59:46 Uh, well when the anti missionaries would see what we were doing, they would try and come in between us and the people we were talking to, right. They would hand out their own tracks and Hebrew, um, basically saying that we were liars, right. That what we were trying to say wasn't true. And so this is real. So when you're doing this, um, person to person contact, yeah, there, there is definitely, at least there was when I was there, um, for all of those years, there's definitely resistance. Um, so I would say that, but then, you know, just doing some of this ministry on the beach, um, people were curious even even then. Right. But realizing we could only have one or two or three conversations at a time. And, um, and it was, it was, it was secular. Um, Jewish people, it was religious Jewish people.
Speaker 1 00:41 We would have conversations with Arabs, you know, um, walking down the beach. But we could only have a few of those discussions at a time. And I would say, I want to tell you a story about when we were there, um, because I just know it makes me excited to go back because I just know the climate is different now. I can, I can feel it from what you guys are saying. The climate is different. Um, but we were there one time on one of our early trips and, and I'll, I'll do this a little bit in the intro, give us a little bit better, but everyone's probably noticed, we've been saying you shoe it and Jesus kind of interchangeably. And there may be some people who are listening who have, don't know what we're saying when we're saying your shoe. Um, but we were there one of these early trips and we were on the beach in Tel Aviv and hang out with some of our good friends and, and, um, people always ask us why we're there, you know, so we would say, we're Americans, we love you. We love Israel, we love the Jewish people, and, and we just want to come and tell you that we love you and, and Yeshua loves you. And, and they're like, what? So tell me what, tell me the name that some Israelis use for Yeshua. It's not your shoe. Like we've been talking.
Speaker 2 01:57 Yeah. So, you know, I'm not quite sure when in history it happened, but I think at some point during the medieval period with the Christian debates and Judaism in the synagogue, um, they basically, you know, the rabbis basically changed his Hebrew, the Hebrew spelling of, of Jesus, his name is Shu. Ah, it means, um, salvation, right? But they removed a letter and turned it into an abbreviation. Um, yes, shoe, which is actually a curse word, and it means, sadly, may his name and his memory be blotted out. But I will say that very few Israelis actually know this. In other words, they've been, so they've been taught that that's his name, yes. Shoe. And they don't know that they're actually using an abbreviation. They're surprised when they hear it. And subject. I've actually heard more and more Israelis, even in newspapers and even in academia and scholarship, Israeli scholarship, they've, they've actually started to call an issue of, because he's, you know, it's under, he's undeniably Jewish and he, you know, the name Yeshua was a common name in second temple period.
Speaker 1 03:12 Well, and this is, this is why I'm saying that climate has to be changing. I know. So this was back in probably Oh three or Oh four, we were having this discussion on the beach and we said this, our friends said to this guy we were chatting with, he said, we just want you to know your shoe, uh, loves you. And he got this crazy look on his face. And he's like, what? And he said, you know, like, what did you say? And he said, your shoe Shula, like your shoe. He loves you. And he said your shoe. And he couldn't believe we had said that word. And he said, you should, do you know what this is? Do you know what this word means? Because he knew at that point through the context that we were talking about Jesus. But of course, because at that point he had not heard him described as that name.
Speaker 1 03:56 He just knew. He just knew what the word meant. He said, you shoe, do you know what this word means? And of course we did. But my friend was like, tell me, tell me what it means. And it was one of the most impactful moments of my life. And he said, I want you to look at that. See out there, we're standing by the Mediterranean, right? It's gorgeous. Do you see that? See, imagine that you are drowning in that sea and you cannot get out and you are dying. Do you know what your shoe is? You shoe, what is someone coming and getting you out of that seat? You're drowning. And he said, that's what you shoe is. And my friends said exactly, exactly. Even though said yes, enough said, but it's, it's a nay. And I think, you know, I was, I was discipling a girl years ago in college.
Speaker 1 04:52 We were going through Matthew, right? And, um, and we're went through the genealogy, which is a great place to start, great place to talk about redemption. You know, the genealogy listed in Matthew. And then we get to, you know, there's points where it's and you won't, and you will name him Jesus because he will save his people from his, from their sins. And it doesn't make it, it loses something in the translation, right when we say that. But if you say, and you will name his name, your shoe it, you see that seat, you're drowning in that seat. You shoe is what picks you up because he will save his people from their sin there. There's a, there's a little richness there when we add that to it.
Speaker 2 05:32 You know, it's interesting. So you know, maybe we don't always think of this but Jesus, and it's a beautiful name. So just please get me here. This out. I, whatever people call them, you know, Jesus is a beautiful name. And I as a Jewish man, I have no issue with Jesus. I love Jesus. It's a beautiful name. What's interesting though, and it's, it's, it's a transliteration of the Greek, uh, but the same name in the Greek is used in the book of Hebrews and translate in our English translations is Joshua. I think it's in Hebrew chapter three. So actually the name is Joshua. So if we actually went with the English, you know, an English name for issue, ah, it would be Joshua. And in some ways it's really beautiful because Joshua, you know, Joshua was the one that brought his people into the promised land.
Speaker 1 06:23 We just read that story this morning with my kids.
Speaker 2 06:26 Exactly. And so Joshua, so his, you know, his name is Joshua. He's, he's our, he's our savior. And, uh, but obviously as I say this, you know, again, for me, I grew up with Jesus being a really bad word and my family. And then towards my dad's later years, every time her name heard the name Jesus, he cried with joy, would have tears of gratitude because it became such a beautiful name for him.
Speaker 1 06:52 Isn't it amazing how he, he is the Redeemer of everything. Even his, even his own, even his own English name, he's the Redeemer. But, but it's, it's so good. We're, we're coming up on time here. Said, I appreciate you so much. I love where this conversation has taken us. Um, I'm going to put links to everything that you guys are doing so that everyone can, can hear about it. Um, but you guys have the Bible college, you're a professor at the Bible college where you are preparing and training Jewish and Arab believers, which is just, it's, it's mind blowing. It's just a picture of the kingdom. So maybe in the time we have left, maybe is there like some, I didn't prep you for this, I don't know. Is there like some project or some program or something like that that's going on right now at the Bible college that you guys are just really excited about?
Speaker 2 07:50 So interestingly enough, um, in another two weeks, we've actually, we're going to be starting a special program, I guess you'd call it a pastoral Kik, pastoral care for women's program or a women's ministry program. And there's going to be 10 Jewish Israeli and 10 Arab Israeli women. So 20 women that are going to be spending an X years. I mean, the next two years studying together, many of them are pastors wives. Many of them have never had the opportunity to fellowship with, you know, with Jews and Arabs and now they're going to be together and they're going to be studying and getting tools. And we, you know, one of the most profound statements I ever heard was in North Carolina. Um, if mama ain't happy, ain't nobody <inaudible>
Speaker 1 08:38 right, right.
Speaker 2 08:40 So, yeah, I will say that, you know, this is just an amazing opportunity. We believe that, you know, this program, uh, is going to be map changing. It's going to be congregation changing here. It's going to be profoundly impact, um, that both the, the Hebrew and the Arabic speaking churches across the land. So that's one big project that, that we've been in a couple of years in the making, getting ready to launch that. Um, and then our semester starts, uh, at the end of October after Sue coat after the feast of Tabernacles. And, um, God is just really blessing our student body. We've got just a group of, of amazing students that are coming, uh, to study the word of God. Some of them continue here to do a bachelor's or a master's degree. Others of them go on to go to law school and, and elect and electric engineering and, and all sorts of things. But, um, we are really experiencing some amazing times here in Israel. And also just the beauty of seeing, you know, Jews and Arabs together here, um, that are just passionate about Jesus. He's our case. Yes. You know, the one new man, we, we experience it as, as a living reality every day here on campus.
Speaker 1 10:00 Yes. I love that. And that's, that's been when we were at the dinner last month, I just kept nudging my husband because this Ephesians two right is just going over and over and over and over in my head. It is, he is our peace. He destroyed that in math-y in him. We are one new man. And, um, and I just love it. It's this beautiful you, what you guys are doing is, is a piece of this beautiful picture that we see in the kingdom. And I just, I love to ex, I love to experience it. I love to see what you guys are doing.
Speaker 2 10:36 Well, I would say that, um, we're not doing anything. You sh Jesus is doing it and we're experiencing it.
Speaker 1 10:44 Amen.
Speaker 2 10:46 No way. There's no way that we could ever bring Jews and Arabs together.
Speaker 1 10:50 That's true. That's right.
Speaker 2 10:52 Apart from the gospel. So God is doing it. And so one of the things I would say maybe to your listeners is that, you know, we get millions and millions of tourists, Christian towards the come through Israel every year. And they come and they experience, you know, Israel passed and they read their Bible and they're excited about the ways in which, you know, um, uh, Torin Israel helps to understand Israel past and their Bibles. But many times they don't realize that, you know, in some ways we're experiencing a rewind of the book of acts. In other words, the gospel once again in the land of Israel is flourishing in the body. Believers is growing in amazing at an amazing rate. And so as people come to Israel, I think it's important for them to also try to hook up and connect with a local body of believers and see what God is actually doing to realize that the God is still the living God who still works here.
Speaker 1 11:48 Amen. Very, very well said. I completely agree. Like I said, when, when we started taking our trips, um, back in 2003, the first trip I took was four weeks. And, uh, my experience first was I landed, we landed of course in Tel Aviv and stayed in Tel Aviv for a week before we did anything else. And, um, I wouldn't change that introduction to Israel for anything. Um, we toured only on the weekends. We connected with local ministries and local bodies of believers, a body of believers inside the land. And um, that increased my love for Israel more than, more than I ever imagined it could. It was, it was life changing and we continued to go because of what you're saying because he's the living God of Israel now. So good set. So tell us how we can find you, those of us who do not speak Hebrew but still would like to see some of the videos and the things that you guys have put up. What are your state side as sites and social media so that we can connect with you?
Speaker 2 12:54 So what I would simply do is direct people to our website, one for israel.org Ona, F O R, I S R a, E L. so one for israel.org and you'll come to a page that kind of will give you access to pretty much everything we're doing. Everything from trips to Israel, ministry trips to Israel, to videos and articles that we put out, both in Hebrew and English and also in Arabic. Tell us about our Bible college opportunities for people to do online courses. Um, and training it tells about our banquets that we do, um, across different cities in the United States so people can get involved in. So I would say that the, the website, another thing I would encourage people to do is to just go to YouTube and then just type in one for Israel and they can subscribe to our videos and they can get, and they can see, um, many of our videos that, you know, we've, we put out a lot also in English. We have the, I met Messiah videos that talked about
Speaker 1 13:55 so good, how,
Speaker 2 13:56 how Jewish people, uh, English speaking Jewish people have come to faith in Jesus and they tell their stories and they can share that with their Jewish friends. Uh, so I would say that between the YouTube, YouTube, and our website, uh, they all have access to pretty much everything that we do. There's also opportunities to sign up for our newsletter so they can keep updated pretty much on a weekly basis to hear what's going on and how they can be praying for the ministry here.
Speaker 0 14:23 Awesome. Thank you so much. This has been so incredible and I appreciate you taking the time all the way in Israel this afternoon to do it. So happy new year.
Speaker 2 14:34 Hey, thank you. How can you use,
Speaker 0 14:36 thank you so much. All right.
Speaker 2 14:38 Yep.
Speaker 0 14:40 Okay, so thank you again so much for listening. Don't forget to subscribe so you won't miss an episode. Share the link with your friends. You can visit
[email protected] and until next time, this is Alexis B SETI, remembering to do well for ourselves so we can do good for others.
Speaker 4 15:00 <inaudible>.
