Speaker 0 00:00:00 <inaudible> hi and welcome to that makes total sense. The podcast where we talk about faith, finance and everyday life in a way that makes total sense. I'm your host, Alexis obesity on this podcast, you'll hear the personal stories of friends I'll be interviewing who were doing familiar things in new and innovative ways. We'll answer questions specifically about money and our relationship with it. And we'll explore faith and Bible teaching together in all of these. It's not about changing our convictions as much as it is about messing with our methods. We'll have a lot of moments here together where we pause and say, that makes total sense.
Speaker 0 00:00:44 Hi, I'm Alexis <inaudible> and this is, that makes total sense. I am totally excited today to bring you a conversation I had with personal finance coach, Michael Lacey, Michael has his company winning to wealth and also a podcast called the wealthy neighbors show. And Michael and I have known each other through the personal coach, personal finance coaching world for a while. And, um, I actually referenced this in the show that we knew each other before each of us rebranded. And so we'll chat about that in a bit. I have honestly wanted to have Michael on to come and talk about things in the past, but we just hadn't gotten around to it until right now. And so Michael is going to tell his story, really his ongoing story of being laid off during this Corona virus, he starts off by telling how he and his incredible wife got started in their own personal finance journey, how they paid off a ton of debt, how they're building wealth, and then now how this virus has affected them. And so you do not want to miss this conversation I had with Michael Lacey. Hey everybody. This is, that makes total sense. And I am Alexis Piseti. I am so happy today to have Michael Lacey with me on the show. Hey Michael.
Speaker 1 00:02:03 Hey Alexis. I'm so glad to be here. Thank you for inviting me on. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 0 00:02:07 Oh my goodness. Yeah. So Michael has a financial coaching business and we have known of each other. I'm just going to say, it's maybe been like three ish years now or something like that to give you some context for the length of time and the evolution we knew each other before each of us rebranded.
Speaker 1 00:02:30 Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 0 00:02:32 I used to be black sheep finance. Correct. And now you have winning to wealth, correct? Right, right. Okay. Yes. Yes. Because short answer, short, short term, Seth and I both followed you. And I would say, we would say his black sheep finance used to post a lot of hilarious means. And so I would just be cracking up like, you know, nine o'clock we're like watching some Netflix show or something and I'm like busting out, laughing on my phone. He's like what? I'm like no blank sheet finance. Like he just threw it out. So that was fun. But now you're winning too well. So can you tell us a little bit about your family and a little bit about your business?
Speaker 1 00:03:15 Yeah. So I'm married, uh, obviously, you know, wife Taylor and I have a two year old daughter named Alison and Alison was actually believe it or not. I don't know if I've shared this with you, but she was the inspiration for the brand, the rebranding of the business. Yeah. So, uh, I was black sheep finance and we converted to winning to wealth. And I came up with that name and that idea while Taylor was in labor. Um, and the premise was, yeah, we're in the hospital. Kayla's in labor. I'm thinking business, right? Yeah. That's awesome. You know, and the, the, the idea, the thought behind it was, I wanted a place where it was documenting our family's journey to wealth, right. To our goals. And I didn't want it, I didn't want the name or the rebrand to be like, you know, we've arrived, but I want it to signify the journey. And so that's where the winning to Kmart came from as well. And then now we've gone on, we've got a blog and we've got a podcast and, um, I'm doing financial education stuff and courses and all these great things. Um, but it all just started from just me being authentic about our family's journey, the wins, the losses, the struggles, the triumphs, and all of that, as it relates to our finances,
Speaker 0 00:04:33 I love it. I love it so much. And I've, I'm feeling like, okay, when you said Alison was too, I'm thinking back. So this is like personal. I'm like, I really feel like we planned a double date and then Taylor went into labor. Is that true? Am I remembering that correctly?
Speaker 1 00:04:49 You are. You are remembering that. Absolutely. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:04:54 Get a sitter, man. We're getting to sit her. Let's go out.
Speaker 1 00:04:57 Let me tell you, so this is kind of what happened. So you were like, I remember you were like, okay. I was in Austin for a work trip and Taylor had a doctor's appointment and she wasn't anywhere near labor. I come home and like Monday morning, she's in labor. And we were supposed to go somewhere like Tuesday or Wednesday or something like sure. Yeah. Right. And I, the one thing I remember from like our conversations was you texting me and being like, this is the perfect time to go out right now because your baby's just going to sleep all the time. That was the best advice ever. Because now that she's two, it's like, and I mean, granted, we've got Corona right now, but I'm like, I want to go anyway.
Speaker 0 00:05:34 Uh, no, cause it's terrible. It's the worst. Right? I'm like, Oh my goodness. I mean, it's too is a different
Speaker 1 00:05:43 Yes, yes.
Speaker 0 00:05:44 We'll wait for Corona. And when you guys get a sitter, because yes, we should have snagged you. Right. When, like I said, when she was just sleeping the whole time, that really is it. You can do whatever you want. Cause they're so yeah, absolutely. And now it's like, help me. You, I can't believe it.
Speaker 1 00:05:59 Send help please.
Speaker 0 00:06:01 You sent out. Yes. Please send help. Because two is not a joke. Yeah. It is just not a joke. So I'm, I'm glad it's you? Not me. Um, did I say that? Yeah. Six. So I'm just going to, I mean, my baby's six, it's just a different world. He can buckle himself in his own car seat and I'm like done. I mean, and I know, right?
Speaker 1 00:06:27 It's this weird space of like, I'm so ready for you to be bigger. But at the same time, I want to love you so much.
Speaker 0 00:06:33 Oh yes. Oh yes. Oh it is. It is. It's, it's totally that it's totally that. But I'm telling you see seatbelts and wiping their own bottoms. When that happens, you'll feel a little free. It's just almost like you get a little piece of that life back. But anyway, so I'm S I'm thrilled. I see pictures of her all the time. She's amazingly cute. It's just ridiculous. You guys are doing a great job. You guys are doing a great job. And so you do share your parts of your financial journey, which a make you guys so relatable because you're willing to share. And, and that's one of the things I love because no, I don't think everybody's called to share everything. And I don't think everybody's kind of supposed to share everything, but I'm so thankful that for the people like you, who will make yourself vulnerable to that point where we can look and number one, it gives us hope because we think, Oh my goodness, if they're doing this and we can do this because you're just like us and, and it also, we can celebrate with you. We can celebrate your wins, we can, um, grieve your losses. Um, you know, I don't know if you feel that, but I kind of feel that in some of your Instagram posts, like you've got this community who's like rooting you on and, and kind of down with you when you're down.
Speaker 1 00:07:55 Absolutely. Yeah. It, 100% feels like that. Um, you know, when I sh anytime I share, like, Oh, we've been featured in CNBC, everybody like rushes to my private messages. And they're like, that is so awesome. And so, and then when I was just laid off, it was like, I mean, it was just a flood of people that were just like, I'm so sorry that happened to you. And like, let me know if you need anything. And it's like, these are real life, like, guess it's virtual. But like, these are like real life connections that we've made just through being vulnerable and sharing our story. And, and I love it. It's awesome.
Speaker 0 00:08:29 All of it too. So you mentioned like the huge thing, which is really, um, one of the reasons I invited you on, because you had shared about your layoff on social media, which is in step with everything you've been doing that I've seen in the last three years, it's completely in step. And so I appreciate that, but I thought, I wonder if he'll come and talk about it on the podcast. So I want to get there, but before we get there, you didn't just wake up and like, Hey, I want to be a personal finance coach. Like you guys have a story, you and Taylor have a story, um, from your personal background, the work that you've done as a couple to get to, to where you were featured in CNBC or in Forbes, or some of these great things that you've done in the stories that you've shared. So can you take us back? Um, the people who follow Dave Ramsey might say, can you take us back to like your, your debt free story? Um, but can you take us back there and kind of give us a bit of that family history so that we can walk through that winning to wealth and the layoff, and then kind of what that looks like for you guys?
Speaker 1 00:09:34 Sure. So Taylor and I have been dating since we were like 20, right? Wow. And so our twenties, we, we got really good jobs, really young, so we made good money and we spent good money. Like we had, we had fun, right? We both had brand new cars. We went on trips all the time and it just looked incredible, but we had no money. We had literally nothing to show for it. And I think we had maybe like four grand, maybe five grand saved or something like that. Wow. And so we go, we get married, we get engaged, get married, do that whole thing. We'd go on our honeymoon. And it was then that something flipped in me like, okay, now you're a husband. And now you're responsible for this woman. And you're entrusted with taking care of her. Like you have to be a good steward.
Speaker 1 00:10:28 And so it was then that I was like, wait a minute. Okay. We can't do everything that I thought we were going to do on this honeymoon. Cause we went down to the Florida keys. We had an oceanfront resort and just all these fantastic plans. But I was like, you know what, when we get home, we've got two brand new cars waiting on us. We had just gotten a bigger house that we didn't need. Um, and that came with increased expenses. We had financed furniture and just done all these things prior to getting married. And it was like the first time where I felt like maybe some of this was a mistake. Like maybe we're not going in as well of a direction. As I thought we were making good money. We were making six figures as a couple, everything looked great. We were having the time of our lives, but like something in me just wasn't sitting well.
Speaker 1 00:11:14 And so we're on the honeymoon. We go on this. We had part of the reason why we went to the Florida keys, was to go on our snorkeling. We want it to go circling. And so we get there and get on the boat, get halfway out in the water. And the guy's like, Hey, we've got to turn back. There's this big rain storm coming. So we turn around, go back and he's like, look, I can either give you guys a refund or you can just come another day. And Taylor's thinking we're here for like three or four more days. Why don't we come another day? I'm thinking let's get the money and run.
Speaker 1 00:11:48 And that was like, Oh my, it was the beginning of a really, I mean our first money fight, which was on our honeymoon. And so we had a come to Jesus moment on our honeymoon. And that was where we sat down and really realized that we were $61,000 in debt. And it was like, okay, it's your house. Right. And we didn't, we didn't even, we didn't have, this is the crazy part. We, neither, one of us had student loans and we didn't own our house. We were renting. So this is all just crazy consumer debt. This is cars, credit cards, like the worst stuff, you know, like this is not anything that's like adding to our net worth or income or anything like that. And so it just, that was the first time I was like, you know what? We are going in the wrong direction.
Speaker 1 00:12:34 Like something's got to change. I don't know what, I don't know what that is. I don't know what's going to happen, but I I'm done with this. And so we had that conversation and Taylor's like, alright, come home. I throw the budget out. I'm like, this is what we're going to do. Taylor's like, Nope, we're not doing it that way. And so we come together, figure it out though. And ultimately end up paying off the $61,000 in 16 months, say it again, $61,000 worth of debt, two cars and like eight credit cards in 16 months. Stop it. Yeah. That was the beginning of our journey.
Speaker 0 00:13:10 But I'm, I'm gonna, I'm gonna stop you because I'm like your honeymoon. I'm like, I don't know if you knew this fighting about money on your honeymoon is not romantic. So just in case you wanted to know.
Speaker 1 00:13:26 No, not at all.
Speaker 0 00:13:27 This is not romantic. It's our first fight as a couple was on our honeymoon too, as a married couple was on our honeymoon. And I don't even remember what it was about. So if that is so that tells you anything, but
Speaker 1 00:13:42 It's,
Speaker 0 00:13:44 I love that picture that you just gave of like, I'm thinking take the money and run and she's thinking, Oh, we're here to play. And you guys, you're your ideals kind of clashed in that moment. And then you had to figure it out. But the amazing thing is you figured it out and you did not play when you got home.
Speaker 1 00:14:07 Right? I did it. You're right. I did it.
Speaker 0 00:14:10 Oh, where's Taylor. She needs to come in that room right now. You did not play. Alright. I'm packing go.
Speaker 1 00:14:25 So, you know, it was, it was one of those where, you know, again, a lot of it was ego for me. Like I felt like I was the man in the relationship and like, I have this responsibility and like, I'm not living up to it. And so this is what we're going to do. I'm going to fix this. Right. And she was like, I'm on board with fixing it, but the way you're doing it, like, and what I'd like to say is like, so when I kind of woke up to the reality of we're in $61,000 worth of debt, I started drifting towards this life that I wanted to have in the future. When what she was doing, she was holding on to really everything that we had built. I mean, we had built our relationship on traveling. We built our own going out to dinners.
Speaker 1 00:15:11 And here I am saying, we're not going to do that stuff anymore. That's that's a big deal. You know? I mean, we've built a lot of our relationship on some of our best memories are doing these things that I'm saying, we're not going to do it anymore. And so, and I didn't understand that. I just thought, well, you're saying you want this lifestyle. So where's the disconnect. And it wasn't until I was able to find that disconnect and say, okay, what do we need to do? How do we go from a to B? And then she started to see things from a different perspective. And she was willing to jump on board, but it wasn't until I was willing to meet her, where she was and walk with her that we were able to start making progress.
Speaker 0 00:15:49 Yeah. No, that's good. That's really good.
Speaker 1 00:15:52 So see, that's why I say I work because I had to work on myself. It wasn't a shot at her.
Speaker 0 00:15:57 Yeah, no, no. It's good. It's good. Taylor, are you listening to it? I know it's good. No, it's really good because I mean, I had a similar experience after, so my husband and I got married, I still had three semesters of undergraduate left when we got married, but a similar and I already had, I mean, I'm sorry, it wasn't consumer debt, but I got to beat. I had like $68,000 in student loans when we got married and okay. I don't even know if I've ever said this out and a C average. I mean, I'm just gonna throw it out there. Okay. And so this was, it was stupid, right? Like I hope my kids don't hear this one. Like it was totally stupid. And so when we got married at three semesters left of undergraduate and I felt like I had the same come to Jesus moment with myself of I'm married.
Speaker 0 00:16:50 I cannot play this education in quotes. Get this thing that I say, I'm getting this education, this money that we're spending toward it. Because we were like, nah, we're not doing these loans anymore. We got to figure this out. Like I, I was like, this is not just me. If I want to mess around and mess up my own future, whatever, learn your lessons the hard way, kick yourself in the butt eventually, whatever. But when I'm married and my husband who didn't have anything to do with this steps into $68,000 worth of student loans, I cannot mess around. So my last three semesters of school, I think I got one B, I got straight A's. We paid those bills. We did this stuff because it was like, it was the same come to Jesus moment. You have is like, I'm married. This is about my family.
Speaker 0 00:17:42 Now I have a responsibility to him to, well, I'm going to say it for me. I was to grow up to do this thing the right way, because it's a stewardship issue. Exactly what you're saying. I've got to steward my time. Well, I've got a steward. My studies, well, I've got a steward, our money. Well, and we had none of it. I mean, we had no money. Um, but what little we had, we had to figure out how to, how to, how to use it. Um, so no. So I get that. I get that. I'm joking with you, but I get that because it is, you've got to work on yourself and then you've got to figure out the way to walk through it all together. Right. So that you're on the same page and you can do that. So that's a big deal because you're right. All your memories, all your, you know, all of this good stuff was kind of around spinning it and not caring about it. And now you're saying, I want to have some money to spend later, too. Right. So we gotta figure this out. So after you guys spent or paid off $61,000 in 16 months, then what,
Speaker 1 00:18:50 So, you know, it was difficult. And I got to go back a little bit into the journey because about halfway into that journey, I lost my job at that 0.8, eight months into that 16 months, a three month span where I was unemployed and like Taylor was supporting us. And so it was really beautiful because here she was the one early on that was resisting and then she's on board and now, you know, I lose my job. So she's kind of carrying us through this. And you know, me being me, I'm kind of, there are days where I'm kind of down about the job search and the job hunt. And she's like, no, we got this, we're going to do this and we're going to move forward. And then there's days where she's like, Oh man, I don't know if I can keep going. And I'm like, no, no, we're going to do this.
Speaker 1 00:19:32 We're going to keep going. And so it was really through that. Like our, our marriage just has blossomed as a result of the challenges of the journey. But the one thing that happened as a result of losing my job was I realized like how volatile my industry was, I'm in sales. And I realized just how volatile that was. And so after that, it was really important for us to save for an emergency fund. And so I know a lot of people say three to six months, but based on what I went through at that time, it was like, I really felt like I could have been unemployed for five, six months. Like that's really kind of been the standard to get to where I was in my career at that point. And so I was like, you know what? I don't even want to do six.
Speaker 1 00:20:11 Let's just have nine months across the board. And that way, any job loss, anything that happens, we're good. I can take my time, find the right fit, find the right salary, like all of those things, um, without having to settle. And so that was the next step for us was, was really getting that emergency fund in place. And man, I'm so glad we did because we've had like, Hey, you know, life happens to all of us, right? Like there's ups and downs. Things happen, cars break. And, uh, you know, hurricanes happen and you lose a car and you got to buy a new wood. And like all these other things that we've used that emergency fund for that otherwise we would have had to go into debt for. Right. Right. No, that's,
Speaker 0 00:20:48 That's, it, that's a huge thing because I think a lot of, a lot of people that probably you and I both talked to, there's kind of a ceiling like debt pay off is kind of the ceiling. And it's like, man, once I do this, I'll be able to breathe again. Or once I do this and then there's, and then there's kind of this moment where you kind of look around wide-eyed and go, Oh my God, because that journey is arduous. I mean, not everyone does it in 16 months. It's probably more like two to three years for a lot of people. And sometimes even longer than that. And when you've been digging for that long, that hard, and then you pop up, I mean, I have to be truthful with you. A lot of the people that call me for coaching, I say, they have this debt recidivism rate that is really high.
Speaker 0 00:21:34 Like, they'll tell me we've done this, we've done this before. Like we know how to do it. We know how to get out of debt. It's what comes after that, that we have the hard time with, so like they'll call me $25,000 in debt. And I say, well, look, we, we we're here because this is like the third time we've done this and we don't want to do this anymore. Right. But there's something that's like some weird yo-yo I don't know, have you maybe not in your personal life, but have you seen that in some of your coaching life?
Speaker 1 00:22:04 Absolutely. I've seen it, uh, in coaching, I've interviewed people on the podcast that I've had it happen. It's a very common thing where, like you said, we kind of take on debt freedom or the journey because it is, it can be so long and it can be so rough. Like I've, I've see a lot of people kind of take that honest, like their identity in a way. Right. And so when that's over, you're like, okay, what do I do now? And you're just kind of stuck in limbo. And so you revert back to a lot of those old habits instead of being diligent in putting that the same money that you used to pay off debt, using it, to build your net worth and build wealth and all those things, um, it just kinda sits there and you don't have really a plan for it. And it's very common to see people go right back into debt, right.
Speaker 0 00:22:51 Because you were eating when you were paying off debt and so you can still eat and use that money and put it, like you said, toward an emergency fund toward something that will actually build your net worth, um, toward generosity, you know, toward any of those things. Um, but it just kind of floats sometimes, um, that money. And so, so you guys built a substantial emergency fund. I feel like that Susie Orman's number is more like six to nine months instead of three to six months. I feel like she's more in the nine month range, which I think is really healthy. Um, I love that I've spoke with a friend recently who their number is a year, um, because her husband is a business owner and it's like, when it's dry is dry, you know, and, um, you gotta have something. And so, you know, a lot of that depends on, do you have two incomes? Do you have one income? Are you single? Are you a business owner? Do you have a side hustle? You know, all of that kind of depends, you know, is your industry volatile, all of that kind of stuff,
Speaker 1 00:23:41 Your health, do you have kids please? Yes. All that. Yeah. And that's, and that's another, so, you know, now I've, I mean, again, I've touched on it, you know, I'm not working right now and my wife has an autoimmune disease. And so like, we relied on my job for health care for her. Right. And so now we don't have that. So the first thing I wanted to do was, but my emergency fund up. So we're above for years now because I don't know what's going to happen. You know? So everything that we can save right now, we're just saving it in our emergency fund to just kind of combat what's going on and just by ourselves sometimes on the back end. So yeah, you have to, you do, you have to look at just really the totality of your life situation and figure out what would make you most comfortable if you lost an income stream, if something catastrophic were to happen, like what amount would make you comfortable to where you could sleep peacefully at night.
Speaker 0 00:24:28 Right? Right. No, that's, that's, that's so good. So let's go there. You're not working right now and you're not working right now because I feel like, I mean, we're recording this in June. It's probably gonna come out in July and around our house, we call it the COVID.
Speaker 1 00:24:45 We call it Rona.
Speaker 0 00:24:48 I have friends who call it Rona. Yes. In fact, I have a business owner friend who makes in ships apparel, and she has on her website due to Rona. We will ship like every Tuesday, you know, I love it. Um, but, okay. So is that, is that a fair assessment? Is that your job was one of the casualties of Rona?
Speaker 1 00:25:07 Oh, a hundred percent. So, you know, this year or last year, let me go back. We had the best revenue year ever, um, expanded our Salesforce by like 30% or something like that. Um, yeah. And every single month, January, February, March, I was at almost 40% over budget for myself. So I mean, we're, we were crushing it. I mean, I was managing almost $20 million a year. I'm like one position away from VP of sales. Like, I mean, this is like the perfect position that you could ever be in as a sales rep. And yeah. So, you know, first, Monday in April I get a text it's like, Hey, hop on a conference, call in like two hours, like, all right, get on the conference call. I have no clue what's going on. I've been working all morning. It's eight to 10, you know, the conference calls at 10, I've been working eight to 10, no clue what's going on. Get on the call right in the middle of like solving customer crisis and putting out fires. Cause shipments are late. Cause you know, the ports are closed and all these other things, I'm doing all this work. And first thing they say is, Hey, if you're on this call, you're being furloughed. And uh, until June 6th, so wow. Your phone. And they basically told us your phones are already in the process of being routed to your managers. Your email has been shut off. You have no contact. Yep.
Speaker 0 00:26:29 And you're like, there's somebody expecting an email from me in an hour.
Speaker 1 00:26:32 Right. I've told people like I'm actively checking into this stuff. So yeah, that, I mean, yeah, that, so that kind of rubbed me the wrong way. But anyway, we're not here.
Speaker 1 00:26:49 What about your customers or you care about the job? It does. It rubs you. But um, they also laid off, like we had built this new facility in Indiana. They permanently closed that facility and laid everybody off at that facility. Um, and it's like, I just, I, again, because we've been on this journey since 2014, six years, we've done some incredible things with our money. I couldn't understand how this company who I personally managed $20 million for can't weather, this storm for more than three weeks. Like this is eight weeks in the Rona. You know what I mean? So it's like, okay, what is happening? But, um, and then so fast forward a month, I'm furloughed, I'm home. I'm excited because we're in such a great financial position. So like now I get to podcasts more. I get to do more of the things that I really enjoy and love. And so I'm excited. And then we get a month in, on May 15th, actually that Monday before that I got a call and it's like, Hey, cross your fingers. My manager calls me and he's like, Hey, cross your fingers. We've got a conference call on Friday. You guys may be coming back soon and get on the conference call. And they're like, everybody on this call, including my manager, you're being laid off.
Speaker 1 00:28:02 So he's thinking he's bringing all of us back and he gets laid off too. Yep. So yeah, that was May 15th, Michael. Yeah. Okay.
Speaker 2 00:28:19 I'm glad you're laughing. Cause I'm almost crying, but here's the thing.
Speaker 1 00:28:24 Here's why I get to laugh about it. Right. Because, because a lot of people don't know again, we've done the, we've done the work to put ourselves in a fantastic financial position. Just our emergency fund is 15 months outside of our emergency fund. If we get into selling off investments and all that, I've got another few years that we've built up. So we were already kind of in the process of me talking about potentially walking away from my job next year so that I could focus on my business and other things full time. So this just kind of accelerated the process. And once I got that perspective and that understanding, it was like, okay, because I had heard God telling me, like, it might be time. And I was like, but God,
Speaker 2 00:29:07 You, you put me in this position,
Speaker 1 00:29:10 Crushing it right now. Like I'm making six figures and I'm doing great things and I'm giving so much and I'm, you know, I'm doing all of this is for you. And like, you, you know, you put me in this position, it's not time yet. And he's like, but it's time. And I kept resisting. And so it was like, once that final decision had been made, it was like, okay, I'm in silence. I'm all by myself. And I hear God saying told you, wow,
Speaker 2 00:29:40 I love you're like,
Speaker 0 00:29:50 Then that's where you, then that's where you hang up. Cause he's like,
Speaker 2 00:29:52 Well, maybe it wouldn't have happened. Like we're done right now. Call you later tonight. I got a guy here. I'm out there, phones ringing. Yeah. That was back there.
Speaker 0 00:30:07 That is crazy. That is crazy. But I wanna, I want to come back to your story because I think it's so impactful and so powerful and I love that you can laugh about it, but I want to go back. I'm going to put you on the spot for a second because this is what you do. And you're so good at it. So I want to go back to something we touched on before we started recording, because I basically said I ended up getting the weenie syndrome and wouldn't write or talk about Rona financially for a long time when it happened, because I didn't, I wanted to express and, and, and give people hope, but I didn't really know how to do it kind of the right way or in a way that would be helpful because in my head, even though it wasn't my heart in my head, that things I kept hearing were maybe people's own voices of dang it.
Speaker 0 00:31:14 If only I would have, or I didn't know, or I was trying, or I was in the process and I didn't want to put any woulda, coulda should is on people and add to any shame that they might be feeling because this virus and the subsequent shutdowns were and are, they've been devastating to our economy. Devastating. I mean, there would be days cause I grew up, my dad when I grew up was growing up, did manual labor. He has a graduate degree now with a job where he has to wear a tie, but that didn't happen until I was in college. And my mom was a small business owner and waited tables in between. And I am picturing my upbringing going, if all of these restaurants are shut down, there are moms who cannot go to work. If all of these businesses are shut down, there are families who don't need the services.
Speaker 0 00:32:15 Like my dad used to offer as a, as a self employed, small business owner. Um, we, our personal family was fine and has been fine so far. Um, even with the oil and gas, uh, issues being, being, uh, what they are, thankfully we've not been affected, but we've had lots of friends who have been. And, um, and so I just kinda hid. I'm just going to be real Frank. I mean, I just kind of hid because I just didn't know what to say, um, to give people hope and encouragement. And so as a coach, what did you say or what are you saying now? Or what will you say? Because you'll get calls from people next week, who, this is their current situation. They're not working, but they don't have 15 months.
Speaker 1 00:33:08 Right. I think the most important thing to remember is like, you really kind of have to keep everything in its perspective and understand that like, this is all unprecedented, right? We've we've not seen anything like this, at least in my lifetime. I've never seen anything like this. Um, and so with that being said, like coming to the awareness that it's okay to not be okay right now. Right? Like it's okay if you're not okay right now. Right? Like this is not the end of the story. Like this is a part of the story and it's a very difficult and trying time in the story, but this is not the end of the story. Right. And so it's okay to not be okay, it's okay to not have the answers. It's okay. To question the decisions that you've made in the past. Like all of that is a perfectly normal part of living through this time. Right. And so coming to terms with that and just being okay with not being okay and not knowing and not understanding, I really believe is one of the first steps that you really kind of have to take. You know,
Speaker 0 00:34:23 That's so good. That's so good because you're right. I mean, what I hear when you say that is give yourself some grace. That's what I hear when you say that. Um, and I think I, I have projected onto a lot of people, probably what I would feel. Um, and I would say I only would feel that way because I'm not new to this scene. We, we, we were not nearly as fast and paying off our debt as you and Taylor were, which means I've been working through this a lot longer than you have, and I'm older than you. So I have more and more history in this space. And the more, you know, um, more time spent, um, in this space. And, and I was feeling like, I don't know what to say, but I think that's the right answer is it's okay. Not to be okay right now. I mean, people listening it's okay. Not to be okay right now and have grace for yourself because this is unprecedented in our time in our life. It's unprecedented. Yes. There have been other pandemics. Yes. There have been things, but, but when we're experiencing it, we're in our thirties or forties or fifties or twenties, um, we haven't ever seen anything like this. And when you're working through some of these processes, you and I know it takes a minute, it takes a minute to get there.
Speaker 1 00:35:56 Yeah. I mean, I mean, just think about it. The world stopped. Yeah. Like not just your life, not just your city, your state, your country, the entire world stopped for months that like, there's no manual for dealing with that right now, rather than the Bible. You know what I mean? But there's like, there's no like practical. This is how you handle a global pandemic. When the world shuts down, like nobody's written that book,
Speaker 0 00:36:25 Nobody has written, some people go into,
Speaker 1 00:36:29 I just made somebody a millionaire.
Speaker 0 00:36:31 Exactly. Right. Pre book proposal for it. No, I mean, seriously. It's like, no. Yeah. I mean, there's no book for that. There's no book for that right now. So have, so have grace for yourself. So you're, you're like officially laid off for a month now at the time that we've done this recording and you're in a really good spot, which I love, but talk now, as a coach, somebody got laid off two weeks ago. Last month today they're listening to this because their manager called them and said, step on a conference call. And they decided I got to go for a walk and they don't have 15 months, man. Maybe they're still in debt. Can you, can you coach that person for a second?
Speaker 1 00:37:23 Yeah. You know what, and let me just say, I'm having 15 months of experience. I mean, having 15 months of expenses, like doesn't make me a robot. Right. Like I still feel, I say I'm a hundred percent. I was still angry. Um, I was hurt. I was upset. I was scared because again, my wife has an auto immune disorder and now we don't have health insurance. We have two weeks to figure out our health insurance during a pandemic, like she's high risk. So I felt all the human emotions that you're feeling right. That that's, that's not that hasn't been my experience. I would like to just say that we're just completely Bulletproof and we've completely shielded off from this. Um, that's not been my experience.
Speaker 0 00:38:12 Thank you. By the way for saying that. Thank you.
Speaker 1 00:38:16 No problem. But I think financially, you know, one of the positives of what's happening right now is, you know, you've seen legislation that's been passed to, to really kind of help people. Um, well you have the unemployed. I mean the enhanced unemployment benefits. I mean, I don't know how long that's going to last from here on out, but we've seen that the extra $600 a week that's really helped a lot of people. Um, you know, we've seen another thing to know is that if you've lost a job, this is a qualifying life event. So you're eligible. You have plenty of options in terms of healthcare, you can get on a spouse's plan. If you've lost a significant portion of your household income, you may be eligible for Medicaid. So there are all these options that are available to you right now that could help you weather the storm.
Speaker 1 00:39:03 And I'd be happy to help anybody that needs help to, to just kind of navigate different sectors of this, right? Because this doesn't just impact our finances. It impacts our health care. It affects retirement and impacts just so many other things. I mean, what do you do with your old 401k? Just all these different decisions that you're having to make. And it feels like everything's coming so fast. Right. You know what I mean? I got laid off in the middle of the month and in order for us to have health care for the month of June, I had to be signed up by June 1st. Wow. So I've got two weeks to navigate all these different options and weigh everything out and make sure my wife can see her specialist and her labs and the eight prescriptions that she takes a day. And it's a lot. It is a lot. So yes, give yourself grace. Um, but reach out to professionals, you know, it doesn't have to be me. It could be anybody, you know, whatever you're struggling with. There are certified experts that can help you navigate the things that you're concerned about. Um, and so don't be too prideful to ask for help. And so those are really the things that I would say to somebody that that's just navigate, trying to navigate this uncertain time.
Speaker 0 00:40:12 Oh my goodness. No, that's so good. And I, I, uh, told Michael this earlier. I mean, like I said, we've kind of professionally known each other and followed each other spaces for a few years now. And I'm like, if it's, if it's, if it means anything to anybody out there, like I would call Michael <inaudible>, you know, I'm like for the, for the most part, we kind of do, you know, the, the whole coaching things ourselves. But we have seen a coach in the past. You know, it was about, uh, before either one of us got into this space, but sometimes even the experts need or the professionals, maybe, I don't know if I'd call myself an expert, but the professionals need a third. That's what I say. Sometimes my married clients, especially you need a third, second set of eyes, or if you're single, sometimes you need a second set of eyes.
Speaker 0 00:40:58 And so for what it's worth, I would call Michael to be my third set of eyes, to look through this and walk through it with you. Um, and especially someone like Michael, who has recently experienced all of those emotions that you might be experiencing if you're, if you find yourself laid off and in this situation due to the COVID due to Rona, because it, it makes a difference because that empathy makes a difference in that professional relationship. Somebody who, who you can trust, but who also knows you're going through and won't try and guide you through it as if you're a robot. Or I just got to take this step in that step and do this and do that. I mean, that's not, you know, that's not always helpful and it's not real life. So anyway, Oh my goodness. Thank you so much. I'm like, I feel like this, this has just been so good and so refreshing for me. And we're talking about a layoff.
Speaker 1 00:41:59 Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:42:04 Like a good refreshing conversation. I mean, but it's,
Speaker 1 00:42:09 It's always nice when we're reminded of our humanity, you know, it's always nice to just genuinely connect with people. Um, I mean, it's always helpful.
Speaker 0 00:42:21 Yeah, it is. So as we wrap up, where can people genuinely connect with you? And I'll put all of the links in the notes for this.
Speaker 1 00:42:32 Yeah. So, uh, as a space, as we've talked about my name's Michael Lacey, I'm the founder of winning to wealth. So you can connect with me on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, and Twitter under winning to wealth. Also my blog is winning to wealth.com and there I am the host of the winning to wealth podcast. So if you just pop in winning to wealth on Google, you will find all of these different ways that you can connect. So well.
Speaker 0 00:43:00 Nice, nice. And I'll put all of those in there too. Hopefully all of my links will work and we'll just put it, we'll just put winning to wealth everywhere out there because Michael is the real deal. I know you've heard that during this conversation, but Michael is real deal. Um, and I mean, follow him on Instagram. It's, it's worth the family picks. I think it's worth the pics of Alison to follow you on Instagram.
Speaker 1 00:43:24 She makes us look better for sure.
Speaker 0 00:43:29 Entirely mean that, but I don't know. Can you scroll all the way to the bottom and see some of your old names too?
Speaker 1 00:43:34 Yeah, they're there. They're there.
Speaker 0 00:43:38 They're there. Anyway, that was, that gave me some entertainment too. But anyway, so really Michael, thank you so much for coming on and for sharing your story and, um, for giving us hope in the midst of all of this, it's been so amazing.
Speaker 1 00:43:51 Alexis, thank you so much for sharing your platform and giving me this opportunity to come on and share and hopefully inspire somebody else, uh, to, to attain whatever it is that their goals are as well.
Speaker 0 00:44:02 Amen. Amen. I appreciate it. All right. We'll talk soon. So thank you again so much for listening. Don't forget to subscribe. So you won't miss an episode, share the link with your friends. You can visit
[email protected]. And until next time, this is Alexis Piseti remembering to do well for ourselves so we can do good for others. Bye
Speaker 1 00:44:27 <inaudible>.
