Episode 074 - Rondell Treviño

Speaker 0 00:00:07 Welcome to that makes total sense. A podcast dedicated to exploring God's generosity and justice. I'm Alexis resetting the Christian, aiming to ask good questions and encouraging you to do the same. Every one of us is wired by God to live out generosity and justice, but the house sometimes alludes us. That makes total sense is a way for us to get together posture ourselves as learners and challenge one another to practice generosity and justice in a tangible way every day. Well, I want to invite everybody to no matter when you're listening to this to kind of take a deep breath. It is Friday, January the eighth, as we're recording this. And I don't usually say that because, you know, tell the date and time when we're recording, because these episodes are not in serial. They're meant to be listened to anytime. But I say that because this week we saw events happen in the U S Capitol that I was telling my children that their children will read about this week in their history books. Speaker 0 00:01:15 And so I just want to give that context that I am sitting across from Ron Del Trevino, and I'm actually really thankful that our conversation got rescheduled because we were supposed to talk earlier this week. Um, but Ron Dell has been a voice on social media and in this space that is bringing hope and truth that is repeating the gospel over and over and over again. And I am just really looking forward to our conversation today when we are definitely going to talk about the ministry that he's been running for a long time, immigration coalition. But first we are going to talk about, um, what happened this week. So Rundle, thank you so much for being here with me today. Speaker 1 00:02:04 Well, I appreciate you, uh, invite me. I'm thankful in God's Providence, all the reschedules led up to the parties today. So there's a reason for that film. I'm excited that we can go, we can talk about what has happened this, uh, this past week and, and hopefully give some gospel hope and, uh, and just, uh, give people hope of the gospel and peace in the midst of so much, uh, brokenness. So I'm excited to be with you. Speaker 0 00:02:30 Thank you so much before we get into that. Can you introduce yourself to everyone who's listening and give us a little bit of context for where you are and, and what you do. And then, like I said, we'll get to your, uh, ministry at the end and in more detail. Speaker 1 00:02:48 Yeah. Randell, Trevino. Um, uh, I live in Austin, Texas with my family, a beautiful wife, Laura, uh, two daughters, Sophie and Charlotte. Um, and we, we actually live in a tiny home here in Austin. Uh, we're living here for four or five years to, to invest in and, and, and use as a, you know, as an Airbnb down the road. Everybody loves coming off. And so, um, and so, yeah, it's, it's been, uh, it's been a fun journey. We actually moved to Austin in the midst of the pandemic on March 16th, 17th. Um, yeah, so that was, that was really interesting. And so w we've been here? Um, not that we've been here. It's nice and months. It feels like we've been here in eternity. Uh, just like 2020 felt like it wasn't eternity. Um, and, uh, and I run a ministry. We actually moved down here cause I run a ministry called the immigration coalition. And so what we do is we provide clean drinking water, uh, to, to, uh, Latinos, immigrants and migrant communities along the us Mexico border. So, Speaker 0 00:03:58 Oh, thanks for that. I was actually wondering, I'm glad you clarified because, uh, so you know, everyone is used to, we're in, we're in the beginning of 2021 now. So zoom is like our life. And so in this, in this little square that Randell's, and on my screen, I thought that's interesting because his head looks awfully close to the ceiling, but when he's at a tiny house, I'm like, that's perfect. That's exactly what I'm saying. Speaker 1 00:04:19 I'm in a lot. This is my office. So yeah. Folks often think like, how are you? Like six, 10 or something? I'm like, no, I'm like, I'm five 10. Um, this is, I'm literally on the ceiling. Speaker 0 00:04:33 That's awesome. That's awesome. I love it. Well, folks can't see you, but when I saw you, I thought, Oh, okay. So like, but you know, I, my office is in a closet. And so I thought this is probably the same thing. Right. A lot of us record into our work in offices and so a little closet. So I thought that was probably it, um, rundown. I just kind of want to say, um, how I originally came into contact with you and your ministry was actually on Twitter. Um, I was not on Twitter for like ever, I really wasn't on Twitter, I guess. And the truth is I had seen Beth Moore post something on Instagram that she had posted on Twitter. And I thought I am missing the best of Beth Moore right now. Like I need to get on Twitter because she's a riot and she's the best on Twitter. Speaker 0 00:05:21 So I really got on and just thought, I'm just, I'm not really planning on engaging. I'm just, you know, I just kind of want to read and just kind of keep up. And it was actually a really great time for me to do that because it was in the midst of the pandemic. So there's, you know, a lot of news. And then of course comes the resurgence of the fighting against racial injustice. And so, you know, I was able to follow a lot of voices there that were extremely helpful and continue to be extremely helpful. And, um, and that's where I originally came into contact with you and your ministry. And just right off the bat, I want to say immigration coalition, the work that you're doing there for me, I came into contact with as a secondary to how you were ministering on Twitter, which sounds bizarre to say how you're administering on Twitter, but like, can you just even talk a little bit about like, what, what did, what were you seeing in the U S and why, and how were you responding and, and, and, and why like, kind of give me inside your head on that a little bit. Speaker 1 00:06:32 Yeah. Um, you know, as, and I really got it, you know, the political arena in some ways in 2000, uh, 15 is when I was working for an organization that was in Washington, L the, um, uh, mobilizer, um, helping to educate the church on the topic of immigration. How do you have a comprehensive immigration form? Um, they, uh, they were bi-partisan, but somebody part is an organizations lean a little bit more one way or the other. And I learned a lot and I had, I had a really, just a really good experience meeting with legislators in Washington, um, and just learning about the broken immigration system. And so, uh, my passion for immigration was man, there's, you know, when it comes to immigration, you know, people are too far right. Or too far left, and there's no, like, I feel that personally there's, you know, the Republican party overall is selectively pro-life for issues. Speaker 1 00:07:34 And then you have the democratic party, they're selectively pro-life for some issues. And, um, but then you can also be a Christian who votes one way or the other, because you're not known by either party. You're known by Jesus first and foremost. And, and then you just saw this, you know, we've seen this idolatry on both sides heavily more, I would say on one, on the right side, when it comes to marrying Christianity to republicanism or Christianity to being a Democrat, or how, how you vote or view someone. Um, and so I just, in that, in that moment, it was, it was really just, how can I be a voice? I had a platform natural that was growing on, uh, social media. Um, and I said, well, how can I, how can I bring about, you know, my views from what I see in scripture, um, someone that's politically homeless, uh, my identities wrapped up in Jesus. Speaker 1 00:08:28 I'm not a writer for our left. I'm a, I'm a Christian. Uh, and my ultimate citizenship is in heaven, uh, America. Um, how can I use, uh, what I see in scripture from, and a truly pro-life ethic from the womb to the tomb, not just for some people, but all people, even if I disagree with those people and, and their lifestyles in some ways, right. Um, how do I live that out in my communication on social media, I have this following and in you here, you know, we, we have to use, everybody has a voice. And I think there's a, those who have a bigger platform, there's a reason why God has allowed that in some ways. And I think it is for us to be prophetic, to, to speak into the issues so that people can come look at social media or read what we say, like, man, that's so refreshing to hear a different take on such a polarizing topic that's far right, or far left. Speaker 1 00:09:21 How do I remain pro-life and biblically balanced within the scripture? And so that's where I just started saying, Hey, man, I just really want to share my hearts, um, and, and speak truth and love, which I know not every time I've done that. I speak truth about love as much as like on social media too, to help encourage people to help speak truth and even convict, but also encourage. Yeah. And my, my DMS and messages definitely reflect that there's some folks who are a little bit more offended and yeah, and some folks who are deeply encouraged who felt, uh, you know, ostracized for their views on some things and so on both sides. And so, um, I really just say, Hey Lord, how can I actually do it this way? Well, and how can I do it to glorify you, even if it's, um, you know, uh, might be hurtful in my, in some ways, because I might get, you know, a message that says something that's negative to me that hurts my feelings or whatever it may be, how can I still be prophetic for your kingdom, um, and, and your glory. Speaker 1 00:10:27 And so that's what I try to do on a consistent basis. You know, I actually took, I actually slowed down a little bit going into it November, December of last year. And I was like, man, I just, I just really get to focus on the ministry. And my masters did not to really talk about politics for like two and a half months. And this was right after the election. And I feel like things are kind of gliding for like, things were kind of slowing down and I'm like, man, this is good for four years and hear all this. Um, and then this just all trusts this past week. And, and I think the past two or three days I've been tweeting far more than I should or in, and messaging and things, stuff on Instagram and Facebook, but I just felt like, man, I think I just need to speak up, say some of the stuff I've said before, um, to help, uh, as a call out things that need to be called out. Speaker 1 00:11:18 Um, and I think that's been a frustration, right? In some ways that I've, I've, you know, um, there is at the heart at the heart of it for me, I think when it comes to this week, what transpires is, um, I think that's the root of it is our, our hearts are idol factories. We all, as even if you're a Christian, everybody's worshiping something, right. God wants us to worship him with our whole being. Um, but when we fall into place an identity in a president or a country or a flag, um, we, it will compel us to do things that are harmful to ourselves and harmful to others. And that's what we saw this past week, um, is, uh, something that wasn't pro-life, um, definitely wasn't for cops, uh, as, as many of the, some of the cops were injured and hurt. Um, it's when you have these idols that have nothing to do with Jesus, they compel you to do things that, that you probably would never imagine you, that you, you do, and you break into the capital. Speaker 1 00:12:24 Um, and the vast majority were, were extreme, uh, uh, far right. Republicans who support Trump. And I tell people like those are the differences between that extreme is the far right extreme Trump supporter, and then a Trump supporter. Right? I know there are Chris, I know Christians personally who vote for Trump and are some of the most godly people and we disagree, but they're not going to being the doors and break into the Capitol. I think about the some who, who did break into the Capitol in a, in an unhealthy way. And, and they have flags and signs and say, Jesus saves. And, and my heart goes out to those unbelievers, as I've been saying, like, my heart is breaks toward those under unbelievers and even agnostics who have been like, man, I wonder if Jesus is really the true way, even the, of COVID and all this loneliest depression, maybe Jesus is the true way. Speaker 1 00:13:21 And then they see this and they're like, but there's things either saved. Those are all how Christians at. And I'm like, no, like how much more afraid aren't believers and people who were on the straddling of the fence of wanting to come to the visa, uh, how much more are they afraid now of Christianity? Because he was so misrepresented at the Capitol, like Jesus has nothing to do with what transpired. And so we have to speak to that and we have to courageously do that. And as a leader be willing to take, I'm going to have messages full of hate for words, I'm gonna, you know, have messages for people who are saying that I'm one sided and you know, that all the people that were in FIFA and, um, you know, and it's all going to be jibber Jabber is, you know, and, but we have to look to Jesus even in the midst of all of the chaos. And so, um, that's what I try to do as much as I can, when it comes to social media is how can it be encouraging, uh, in the midst of so much going on? Um, so yeah, Speaker 0 00:14:23 Well, and it, and it is encouraging I'm, I'm one of the ones who I feel, um, similarly, right? When, when I discovered, uh, the and campaign that organization last year, I thought, Oh my goodness, I'm home. Like, you know, like, there's finally, I was feeling this and I know it's, it's not the same thing, but I was feeling a lack of community, a lack of Christian community, um, especially that, not in general, but that I could talk about things regarding justice with. Um, and I had felt that since I was a teenager, really, since I was a kid and, and they kind of named it, and I feel like you name it in similar ways, which is we did not buy a ticket to either one of these camps. We didn't buy season passes, like for the rest of our lives. Like we, um, that you can't categorize us in this way. Speaker 0 00:15:21 We want to, we choose to be categorized by how we feel or how we interpret through our reading of scripture. Right? Like who Jesus is and our relationship with him. And it's like, right. How we interpret Jesus to be right, right. How we, how we, um, in our relationship with him, envision him to be in. So we're not categorized by one, you know, one party or the other, or one ideology or the other. Um, we strive to be categorized by Jesus. The crappy part comes in when, like you're saying other people who honestly, I think honestly, believe in their hearts, that they're doing the same thing, show up to storm the Capitol with signs that say Jesus 20, 20 Jesus say, you know, and it's exactly, as you say, what what's happening to our Christian witness, um, when, when that, when that is going on, it's it's so it's, it's striking and it's striking because the, the phrase that enters my mind is when the Israelites built the golden calf, when Aaron built it and he said, you know, we're going to worship. And we're going to say, this is the God who took us out of Egypt. And it's like, we're going to, we're going to say that we're going to say out loud that this is the God who brought us out of Egypt. And I think the reason idolatry is, is hard to catch is because we don't physically usually say that with our mouse anymore. This is our God. He is the one who brought us out, right. This is the one who rescued us. This is the one. But, um, but we saw that on Wednesday, right? Speaker 1 00:17:15 And I like how you said, um, you know, we have to, we have to view, or this came to mind. We have to view issues in the world through scripture and through a gospel lands before viewing it through a Trump lens, Republican Lin, democratic glands, or Joe Biden lens. Like we have to view it from scripture first, because only when we do that, then when we look at these issues, we're not looking at it and going to believe everything that one side says, we're going to know, because we're viewing it through scripture. Some of this is truth. And then we know based on, because we can view through scripture, we can question. I don't know if that's really true, because I'll say I'm not married to this party or this president or this, you know, president elect or whatever. It may be. We're able to throw out the, the stuff that's false and actually believe truth and not go all in and believe things that we've heard this past week, which is, you know, all, everyone, there were busloads of Antifa. Speaker 1 00:18:17 The people, you know, I've, I've had tons of messages from people saying who were, who are Republican saying, I had friends at the protest and they were peaceful. They told me that they saw there were peaceful and there were the, they were all paid actors to be in FIFA. And I'm just like, where's the proof though. And th that's why I, that's why I, I, I love Tim Keller. He talks about, I got inside dollar tree a ton. And he's like, you know, uh, idolatry grabs your imagination in such a way that you, you, you, your heart fall so much in love with it that you even believe lies. And that's what we see. We have folks who, uh, and then you also scapegoat you, you know, you hear things or did you say anything during the alluding and the protesting in the summer? And I'm like, if anybody's been following me, they know I said that the ballooning and the violence is not okay. Speaker 1 00:19:12 Protesting. Yes. Because black lives matter do matter because it's theological, it's rude in Genesis chapter one, everyone's created in God's image. I'm not talking about the black lives matter organization. I'm talking about them as a people because they are created in God's image. Um, but I, I did call out the, the violent looting and, uh, but even to scapegoat that way, idols make us do and say dumb stuff. And, and that's what we're saying. And, and, and even when I graciously even tried to have, and I'm someone who does try to engage with people. So if someone messages me or says, Hey, thank you so much or something I'm always really quick to, as much as I can. And my wife says, I need to stop this, but I try to, as much as I can say, thank you. I appreciate that encouraging. Um, and even if people who were saying, Hey, you know, they were all in people, folks, or this was going on. Speaker 1 00:20:03 And I believe as far as all engaged with them a little bit, um, to have that civil conversation. And, but I'm always just blown away by how people can believe these, these, these lives and this week, it was primarily the far. Right. Right. And, and, and that day it was the far right. We, we had to, as Christians call out the far, right, it wasn't being biased. We're not bias. We're not democratic. We're not liberals who want to just call out one side. Now, as Christians, we're Christian, we call that one side because there was one extreme size and there were not all of them, but many of them were, were, were primarily, uh, extreme, right. Trump supporters who were violently, uh, breaking into the Capitol. So we called him out that day. And I tell people when, when Brian goes into the office and with those in the office, Christian witness will continue. Speaker 1 00:20:59 And we'll have to say, okay, when they do something wrong, the consistency of our pro-life ethic, following Jesus, when there's something that's said that might not need to be said, or policy that might, even for me being someone who's, pro-life from the womb to the tomb that might hurt on unborn babies, or even women who contemplate abortion. And we view them on wrongly, we are going to, we're going to call that out on the left, because we're not, we're not identified by either party. We're, we're coming from a kingdom mindset. So, so we see, and we want to help shape these parties to look more like Christ and in many of them to come in of Jesus and repent of their sin. Right. Speaker 0 00:21:39 Right. And I think, Oh, go ahead. I think, no, you're no, you don't. You're great. This is this, this is the whole point is I want you to talk. Um, but I just kept thinking, like, when you were talking that the two things that keeps sticking out to me are the words, truth, and accountability. Right. And so it's exactly, as you're saying that idolatry causes us to believe lies. And that was part of my point with the, with the golden calf is that they're the people who are dancing, um, around this idol are dancing to a lie. This is the God who brought us up out of Egypt. But I don't think that the motivation is a lie. I think that, I think believing a lie is, as you said, it is a by-product of, of having idols. Don't think I have been studied it, but I'm like, I don't think that, um, that most of the time it's because we're necessarily searching something else to worship that we create idols. Speaker 0 00:22:42 I think it's because we're self-centered. And by that, I mean, when we saw them create the calf, the reason they did it is they were done. They were tired of waiting for Moses, and they were concerned about themselves, right? Like, we're ready to have some leadership. We're ready to figure out where you want us to go and what you want us to do. And this Moses character who brought us here is he's been gone too long. And it wasn't, we're really concerned about Moses safety. It was, what about us? We have followed this guy into the wilderness, and now we're concerned about us. So what about us? And so we created an idol and said, well then fine. This is the God. And he'll take care of us and he'll figure out what to do. But in the creation of the idol, as you said, is the beginning of those creation of the lies that we will bring with what happened this week and calling out the far, right, and saying, look, this wasn't Antifa. Speaker 0 00:23:42 This wasn't, this wasn't as the lies that the idol is propagating, this wasn't, this wasn't that way. As Christians, we say, part of our main ammo is to seek the truth, because this is the way the truth and the life we want to seek the truth and what we're seeing and what we're hearing. Some of these things, aren't the truth. I was dumbfounded. Um, I saw a couple, I had one in my email and then one in on Twitter, a couple of major nationally, internationally renowned Christian leaders coming out and saying the same thing with absolutely no proof at all, that it was Antifa that everyone was peaceful and that all of the, all of the right wing people were peaceful. And that Antifa came in and did this. And I would say a that's not true. We have no evidence of that. You know, on January 8th, we, we have evidence to the contrary actually, um, is what's coming through, but also be, I think it's because we have not, truth requires accountability. Speaker 0 00:24:46 And I think as a, as a, as a group, as a, as a Christian group, um, we a, as, as congregants and, and people who are not necessarily in, in widespread leadership positions have not done a good job of holding our leaders accountable when they do say things that are not true, and that didn't happen, that didn't start happening this week. Right. That's been happening for a long time. But I think, you know, the other part of that is that, um, many, there have been many leaders who have stood up and said, incredible things like you and Tim Keller is I could point to so many dozens of others who are doing and saying things that are the truth, but the ones who are not it's on them too, because they haven't put themselves under anybody to be accountable to. Right. Um, it's, it's kind of a, both ways thing. We're, we're wanting to have our ears tickled. And so we're not providing accountability. We're sacrificing in that way and compromising in that way. But also the leadership hasn't submitted themselves to people to be accountable. And I think that that's kind of working the both ways. Right? Speaker 1 00:25:56 Yeah. And as you're saying, the accountability piece, you know, we are, what have, what a big reason why we're seeing, what we've seen in the past five years is because many in the church have said, well, we're not going to talk about political issues. We just talk about the gospel in the church and let it speak for itself. I'll keep you accountable to discipleship of the word, you know, all that other stuff, that's a spiritual discipline, but the pillows will stay off. Like, it's almost like the pastors, many pastors and not all, um, in terms of say, w we're not going to really test that stuff. So you it's almost like go get the accountability somewhere else of which they don't. Um, and, and so, because the church is hasn't taken, uh, the, the, the position of we have to talk about racism. Why is it racist? Speaker 1 00:26:48 We have to talk about immigration. We have to talk about abortion. We have to talk about loving women who contemplate abortion. We have to talk about fatherlessness that even goes with abortion. In some ways, you know, the fatherlessness and community, uh, sexuality, like we have to talk about these issues that are, that have always been taboo in the church when they should be consistent topics that we talk about and educate people. And then also the importance of primary allegiance to Jesus, not, uh, you know, the elephant or the donkeys, because we haven't done that. Folks have found that no accountability outside of the church, because they can't even bring it up. It's like, let's be quiet about politics and the church. So they ended up looking to a Trump or looking to a democratic party or whatever it may be to be their accountability. And, and it, and, and not only that, but their golden cab speaks words that they believe that have nothing to do with scripture. Speaker 1 00:27:50 And so they were like, dude, this is like a win-win for me. You know, I actually don't have to be held accountable. And I love that. And this goes into it. We can talk about this forever. This grows into even like identity in America. I think a lot of times really conservative, conservative white brothers and sisters who, whom I love. And I know they're creating image of God. Sometimes they, they they're, they're wrapping their hearts around the, the election was a fraud. They're believing these lies because they feel that they're losing their identity in many ways, because culture is becoming multi-ethnic in many ways, it is becoming progressive in many ways, it's becoming progressive, such as when it comes to sexuality or things of that sort in an unhealthy way that doesn't have nothing to do with the scripture. So I see that concern, but they, but, but even the celebratory pieces of there's a multi-ethnic multi-group of people being raised, uh, families adopting different colors of children. Speaker 1 00:28:50 And you've seen as multi-ethnic group of people being raised in our country, they get afraid that they're losing power, um, and losing that privilege that they want that. Um, and so because of that, they're like we have to do everything we can to keep that right. And even now, today, you see, I mean, it seems like Congress is controlled by the, by the Democrats. The Senate is now, I mean, you're going to have a democratic president. And so you have white brothers and sisters, and even just conservatives in general, who are afraid that the country is gonna, you know, gonna gonna end and because of progressivism, uh, that, that, that many issues do need to be caught out on that side. Um, but, but I think, I think sometimes, uh, because of those issues, it can, it can compel them, uh, to, uh, to wrestle with things in an unhealthy way and to live out, you know, in a healthy way. Speaker 1 00:29:45 Um, but I, that is really striking that you brought up the accountability piece because I haven't really thought about that. You know, I was just going on a rabbit trail there, but I'm like, man, there's probably never been any accountability within the church because the church then has yet to talk about it. But yet even in the midst of us not talking about it, we're now in a time where probably a tons of churches, more than you'd ever see before their series in September and October was how do I, you know, it was about politics. It was for being thankful to scripture, not Jesus, not, not, uh, you know, a party or, or an elephant or a donkey. So that that's also been the fruit of it too. Right. We've seen some good stuff come out of, of what has transpired in the midst of so much chaos. Speaker 0 00:30:32 Well, I want to kind of talk about that and I want to talk about it a little bit in your area of expertise, kind of as a, as a microcosm, like as a way to kind of narrow it down and look at it because I agree with you, there were definitely some churches who were addressing this and saying, let's put scripture first. Um, let's put our identity as Jesus followers first, and then let's talk about how these other issues come in. And it was, it was like music to my ears when I would hear those kinds of things. I feel like we probably saw just as much of, um, churches and continuing in their same rhetoric and then using the Bible as a backup for why their rhetoric mattered or why it was correct. Um, and one of the things that struck me, so this was now, Oh, it was for the witness. Speaker 0 00:31:27 I was like, I can't remember where I read this, that you wrote it, and this may be outdated at this point, but you quoted, um, I think it was a Lifeway study that said at the time, something like only 12% of Christians primarily choose to view immigration through the Bible. And, and that, to me speaks volumes about what exactly what we're talking about, because if only 12% of Christians primarily choose to view their immigration views through the gospel, through the Bible, this is actually a complete reciprocal, almost of what, how much the Bible talks about immigration, right? Like in those same stories in the Torah where, where they're, where they're building the golden calf. One of the things that, that the Lord says over and over and over to them through Moses is remember when you contact, when you come into contact with the Sojourner, when you come into contact with the foreigner, when you come into contact with a visitor, please remember you were once that and treat them accordingly, right? Speaker 0 00:32:41 We are called on as believers over and over and over and over again, to treat with the dignity, the God given dignity, that they have people who are foreigners in our land, that's, you can't read the Bible. You can almost not read a chapter of the Bible with that coming up somewhere from cover to cover, but it is striking that only 12% of Christians, maybe it's more now I pray it is in, in 2021, um, choose to view the immigration through a biblical lens before I let you get to it. I'm going to say full disclosure. I have either been one of those people or straddled that fence. Um, and I would say, I tried to view immigration through what I thought was a biblical lens, but I had to seek out in this case, it was in the form of a book, but it was where I started. Speaker 0 00:33:34 I had to seek out just like we were talking about before intentional discipleship to figure out how to do that. And so, um, I read a book, I was able to talk to the author. I started looking up other things and talking with people, I have friends who were immigrants. And so it was more about like, what is your experience, you know, in this, do you mind talking with me about that? Um, but you know, my believing friend, some of my believing friends who are, and so we were able to have a dialogue, but when it's just a, a line and a voting guide, or when it's just a bullet point on a platform, a political platform, and we don't hear it in the form of discipleship at our churches, um, it's really difficult to kind of make those connections. And I don't doubt that other of these political issues that you're talking about are the same thing. Right. Um, you kind of, kind of operate in the same way. So I don't know if that stat is up to date, but can you just give some thoughts on that? You know, just as a, just kind of, as a microcosm of maybe some of the bigger political pictures. Speaker 1 00:34:43 Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's statistics actually came out, I think late, late 2014, 15, and after awhile, even before I think before Trump was coming into office and even after he, uh, I feel like that number has flipped. That's probably gone up and down because of the craziness that we've seen. And so I wouldn't doubt that it was, it would re it would probably remain between 12 and 20% maybe. Um, and, and as, and my niche naturally is, you know, personally, I'd talk about politics from a hundred thousand foot level, finding your identity in Christ, uh, you know, not the right or left. Um, but my numb, my big niche is immigration like loving immigrants. And, and it was the policy stuff that I love. Um, and, and that stat has always been one of the motivating factors for me to want to speak to churches and educating churches around the country, consulting with churches on a theology of immigration, um, from, from the scriptures. Speaker 1 00:35:46 Um, and in such a way that, that, I think a lot of times there were Christians who, um, who they don't view immigration from the Bible because of the fact that, uh, they're so married to Romans 13, which is obey the rule of law, but they also see that as no, God doesn't care about immigrants undocumented when they don't have any citizenship. So, you know, they don't deserve to be here. And then that goes into a whole nother piece of, well, then that probably means that you love the American flag and your citizenship more than Jesus. Um, and then you have another side that's super progressive that says, Hey, doing justice, caring for them, loving immigrants, but then they want to throw out Romans 13. And I'm like, but Romans 13 is still there and that's important. And that means we do have to still respect the rule of law by seeking to, uh, you know, uh, uh, help immigrants obey the law. Speaker 1 00:36:38 We're not for undocumented immigration, but there's mercy and grace because of the immigration system is so broken. And so we came into it like, man, there's this again? There's this far right. Far left view on immigration. You're either super compassionate for them and you don't want borders or any border security or government to be obeyed or laws to be obeyed, or you're super, Hey, the laws are to be obeyed. They, no immigrant can come unless they have documentation and they're not compassionate to immigrants. So we're like, well, there's a both. And because they're both in scripture, all scripture is breathed out by God. I mean, that was the, the text and Timothy that I preached and, uh, at our national conference was that was how I opened it up, was how do we give people a healthy understanding theologically and healthy practice in our daily lives on immigration. Speaker 1 00:37:25 And I came out with where we have to first believe that all scripture is breathed out by God. And that's some scripture, not the scripture that I want to pick and choose that make me feel good because of my political views. Um, all scripture is breathed out by God. So all scripture has to be adhered to and live by, and far too many Christians, I believe sometimes wrestle with looking at the Bible and view, and it has a buffet. And that's where I think that 12% comes from sometimes. Well, I I'm pro-life for the unborn. And I believe Dennis's chapter one, they're all created in God's image. God formed us in his wound. They loved those passages. They, they will view scripture all day, uh, when it comes to loving the unborn, which is biblical in its writing it's needed, but because they, they don't, they don't, and they have any lesser with the love and care for immigrants. Speaker 1 00:38:14 They'll say, I don't really, I don't mess with that part of the Bible, because if they don't have documentation, I don't like them because that's what this political party or president says. Right? And so they view the Bible as a buffet, like your STCs pizza or people that you're picking out, Oh, I want that pepperoni slice, but I don't want to sausage, but you can't, you can't do that. You have to view scripture or every word in the Bible should be adhered to. And that's how we have to see it. See it as Christian, when it comes to immigration, I could be compassionate, loving, caring to immigrants, refugees, migrants, befriend them, learn from them, understand that there are many, many who are Christians who are even closer to Christ than me and who don't have documentation in the us. And I show him mercy and compassion. Speaker 1 00:39:03 And then there's also this piece where I need to also be the rule of law and seek a compassionate approach to border security that even puts a barrier in wall in specific places needed. So that we do understand that there are some immigrants who do come, who are human and drug traffickers, that they can have tremendous numbers every year, uh, who immigrants, who do this, a small percentage that do this, that we need to pay attention to, because if we pay attention to, we're also not only loving the immigrant, we're also loving our American neighbor and those who are being trafficked. And then it also helps us to focus on the asylum seekers and migrants who do deserve to come here and, and, and come to this country and work hard. Like most of them do. So having that biblically balanced approach, if we, if we view immigration through scripture, that way holistically, then we're going to have a healthy understanding and healthy practice when it comes to living out in the, uh, in, in, uh, society. Speaker 1 00:40:05 Uh, and, and, and it goes to everything else, right? Racism, sexuality, abortion, whatever it may be. If we're viewing it through scripture first, then how we live out in what we watch and how we react and how we respond is going to be gospel-centered. Uh, but it's the question is, are we doing that right? And I think sometimes we're seeing that people are wrestling with the, they're not doing that. And I think it goes back to that piece, like you said, you know, at the core of our hearts, who's, who's really, if we have a discipleship issue in our country, who's who, who needs to be discipled, how many of them thought that they were Christians and they're not, I don't know. Right. Uh, do we need to go back to square one and teaching the Bible on, on how to love God with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself? Speaker 1 00:40:57 I mean, that's the greatest commandments, right? Um, and so that's, that's been, uh, that's been one of the most fascinating statistics for me, but I think it, like you said, it bleeds into everything else. And I think there's, there's a discipleship crisis because not enough Christians are viewing these important issues through scripture. First, they're not viewing it from the Bible. They see the Bible as a buffet, and they love doing it through a political party or a president or whatever politician, because I think sometimes they can give themselves a path to believe things that nothing to do with scripture. And that's what Satan wants us to do. We prone to wonder, right. We're prone to wonder to what are the last ones. And I think that's the, that's the issue. And I think we're going to see this, even when Trump leaves, we're not done with Trumpism, right? Speaker 1 00:41:48 Like it's not where it close to being done. He'll leave office and still be president. So many people, you really will know that's going to be the, and that, and that going to be fascinating that I tell my wife, isn't it fascinating that even when Trump leaves off, it's still still be more powerful than Biden inheritance on a, on a global scale. Not, it just blows my mind and it's scary. Um, because people see him as still the president because of, of, of what has transpired. And so the church has a lot of work to do Speaker 0 00:42:21 Well. Right. And I want you to, I'm glad you said that because I was, I was going to ask you to take that back to Wednesday. Now I have been on Twitter a little more than I should have been this week and into my homework a little less than I should have been this week. So I'm going to have to make it up tomorrow, but I've really feel like I saw you on Twitter or maybe it was, I don't remember where it was saying that some of the response that you've gotten, cause you've gotten, like you said earlier, you've gotten some positive encouraging DMS and you've gotten some not quite as encouraging DMS. And so, um, I just, just throwing it out there. I am mixed Mexican American and white. And so you threw out some terms that I thought, yep. I've heard that one before wetback some of these things right. Speaker 0 00:43:05 That you have heard. And so can in your, in your perspective, can you kind of throw, like if we're throwing back to Wednesday, I know we don't know. We can't tell somebody else's motivation. So I'm not asking you to get inside somebody's head, but I would say from your perspective, what's up with that. Why is that the rebuttal, right? Why, when you, when you come out and say, look, Trump is not the King, he's you, you know, people are treating him like a Christ, like figure and he's, and he's not, this is not who he is. And you're saying these things that are just true, they're just, they're just facts. And people are coming back and calling you racial slurs and you know, this kind of thing in your perspective, what's up with that. What's the connection. I'm going to say my motivation for asking you that one of the things I have seen is that there are, there's a large group of white evangelical Christians who with their whole hearts believe that what happened on Wednesday had everything to do with a very, very small number of radicals being upset about the election. And they are less apt to believe that it had anything to do with white supremacy or racism in the church or in the country. There are people who see this as two different things as if there is no connection there. Um, I don't know if you're seeing similar things or hearing things, but w w when, but when you're, when you're correcting the attitude from Wednesday and you're being called racial slurs, I'm saying, okay, well, I don't know, from your perspective, what do you think? Speaker 1 00:44:53 Yeah, well, I, I honestly think, and I've gotten a mixed group of messages. I get tons of messages, like I said earlier, who are, you know, folks who are super encouraging and they're like, thank you so much for the voice. And thank you so much for being courageous. And it's very, and I'm a words of affirmation guy. So that really uplifted me because on the other side, when I hear things, I'm like, dang, that hurts. And I'm not afraid to tell people like, those words do hurt people, you know? And, and, um, uh, I think, I think often times it's a perfect example was in marriage when I'm a knucklehead and my wife calls me out, you know, I don't call her name or anything, but naturally I'm always, I'm defensive because I'm convicted because I'm like, ah, I don't want to see my sin. Speaker 1 00:45:38 So I'm going to, I'm going to use something else as a scapegoat to throw back at you because of my anger. Um, and everybody, every person understands this and it made this mistake in marriage. And it's because we don't want to come face to face with our sin and idols. And I think that's what happens. I think when people call me illegal or a wetback or whatever it be, I think that the tweet or the message, uh, really actually convicted them, especially those who were Christians who see this stuff, um, convicted them to the point where they don't want to see their stuff. They don't want to come in conflict with the idol. And, um, I'm puking, you know, and I'm picking at their idol, right? And it's like, no, no, no, that, this is my God. You know, they're not going to say this. Speaker 1 00:46:26 Like you said, they're not going to say this is my golden calves, but they don't even, I think they get, they, political allegiance is so blinding that they don't even know they're in it. Right. And I think that's what happens with Senate. It's so deceiving Satan, that's what sin does. He's a master deceiver. He deceives people so much. So whatever it may be, we all struggle with this. But specifically, politically, um, he deceives us to assess the degree that we naturally over time, believe even without saying it, our hearts naturally gravitate towards this idol. So whenever someone says something about my eyes, I'm absolutely crushing. My super response can be violent and, and, and horrendous in my word and in my actions. And that's what we see. And that's what we're seeing. So when people do that, um, my, my I'm, I'm never mean back because I try to think deeper into the sense of, and I'm not perfect, but I try to think deeper. Speaker 1 00:47:23 They're really struggling. And they're, some of them are Christians and some of them, maybe this is a where I can be graciously like, Oh, I disagree that you say that. Or, you know, a lot of times I'll send back a message saying, love your neighbor as yourself or something like that, or, Oh, I kindly disagree be well. And so I'm like, how can I be loving in my response with truth that I pray that the Holy spirit uses to help convict that person. And this has happened actually the past two days, I've actually had a few messages from folks who have said some stuff, um, and assume that I'm like, man, I, you know, we have a conversation. And then two days later, a day later, uh, I'm thinking of this one lady, uh, she was like, I just want to say, I'm so sorry. Speaker 1 00:48:03 God convicted me. I didn't mean to say that. I didn't mean to do that. I'm so sorry. You were right. And it's not about, about me being right. But she was just like, I'm convicted that I, that I said those words to you. And I was like, man, that means a lot to me. And so, and Amy gives me hope that I'm like, man, maybe there's some healthy conversations going on in the midst of all of this chaos and divisiveness. And so that's what I think it does. I think it puts it the idle. I think it plucks that what they truly love above Jesus. And, and they're like, I'm not going to have that. Here's my 2 cents. And this is how angry I am at you. Um, and then you have people who will disagree with me who are kind, and they'll say, uh, you know, they'll say things that make no sense with like the EMC for stuff and all of them were actors and, you know, and, um, and I think one thing for, uh, for many people I have noticed too, it looks, this is also, we noticed that it hurts a lot, even when it's family, when it's family and Latino culture. Speaker 1 00:49:08 And, you know, as a Mexican American, it's a very diverse politically, you're not gonna, you can't, that's why I think Republican Democrats didn't even know that Florida really real grand Valley. Uh, both of those are the most, primarily Latino populated areas, primarily voted for Trump. They can't put their finger on, on Latinos because we all vote differently. We all think differently. Um, and so I think in the Latino community, um, there's a lot of hurt that happens with family when family not only random trolls, but when your own family literally wants to get in a fight with you, because you all think differently on politics. And we've had, I've had a few conversations with some Latino brothers and sisters who have, have, have had that experience. I've been family. I think there had been families that had been broken up because of this. Speaker 0 00:50:00 Oh, they're, they're definitely have. And, and even honestly, something that my parents had said, so a couple of things. So back in the spring, when, um, after George Floyd was murdered, um, I say that I have, my dad, um, was, uh, got his graduate degree in political science. And so he and I have shared similar political views for ever. And I say, we have jokingly say, we've talked more in the last, you know, 10 months or something than we have in the last, like 10 years, because things, I mean, you know, things are constantly changing. We're constantly doing this. And one of the things he said early on what my sister and I both was, you just don't know how thankful I am that our family has remained, uh, together, you know, throughout this, because of course he recognizes exactly what you said, that there are families who are being split on the other side of that. Speaker 0 00:50:54 I want to go back to the things that you were saying earlier, because I feel like you gave me some thoughts that are kind of helping me process. And so maybe this would help someone else process, or please tell me if you think, no, actually you're completely wrong. And we're just going to say that because I want that. But when you were, when you were talking about, um, some of the responses that you get good and bad, but specifically some of the negative responses and I, and I, I just have this picture right now. I now I'm envisioning this idol as a golden key, but I'm thinking, okay, in, in the scripture that I referenced earlier, it's, it kind of sounds like a monolith. Like we're mad that Moses has gone, please make us something. Um, and maybe it truly was, but it makes me think now when we see religious affiliation as an idol or things inside of, um, or I'm sorry, not religious affiliation, political affiliation as an idol or things inside of politics that act like idols. Speaker 0 00:51:56 Like maybe it's the president or maybe it's a policy. Um, you know, we heard a lot of that, um, pre November is I'm going to put this policy over this personality, right. Or, or something like that. But I think when we see those idols creep up, it reminds me of what I think now is, is true. And listening to you has helped me kind of hone it down, which is that there may be people who have the same idle or set of idols, but worship them for different reasons. Does that make sense? And so, so one of the, I will say home honing in one of the things that I am seeing pop out, because like I said, I'm, I'm a mixed American, my married to a white guy, three of our kids are biological. So two of them look white. One of them looks like me. Speaker 0 00:52:41 And then we have an adopted black son who is internationally adopted. So we had to go through the immigration process to, to bring him here. And, and in part, you know, part of that was, we were advised by an attorney. He was coming home. Um, he came home in 2016. And so we were advised by an attorney at, at first we were in no rush because he was because of how citizenship works for adopted children. He's like this. And we weren't really in a rush, but we were advised at the end of the year, you need to go ahead and file your paperwork now because when the new administration comes in at, in January, they're going to be lots of changes, including fees are going to double and, you know, things like that. And so we were kind of caught up in that political, um, immigration, political, you know, politics with him as an internationally adopted son. Speaker 0 00:53:28 And so I say that to say, one of the things that pops out to me about Wednesday and about some of these other idols that I'm seeing is I see one of the reasons that people are worshiping, this is because of their connection to white supremacy and their connection to racism, their connection to why white supremacy as an ideology. But I'm, I'm seeing that. And I'm kind of able to pick out the, the speck in other people's eyes because that's what affects my F my family, right? Like I can see that. And so I think you're worshiping Trump because of your connection to white supremacy, um, or worshiping these policy or whatever, but listening to you talk made me think, and kind of processing this and trying to extend grace and compassion at the same time as accountability and speaking truth and love. And all of that is to say, I have brothers and sisters who may be worshiping that idol that I see, but it may not be because of their connection to white supremacy. Speaker 0 00:54:24 Maybe they're worshiping it because of their relationship with money. You know, maybe this person has a really broken relationship with money and they have a scarcity mentality. I'm making this up on the fly. And so they're worshiping this idle because they're afraid of what they might lose, or maybe this person is worshiping this idle for, um, you know, because of their relationship with the educational system. Right. And they, and they feel like there's some sort of policy there, or maybe they have a history with abortion that, um, is really making them, you know, one way or the other. Um, and not that those things can't be good. Yes. If you have a, you know, you want to make sure that policies are going to serve, serve your neighbors and, and you well, but they can turn into idols. Uh, like, like we've been talking about this whole time. Speaker 0 00:55:08 And so one of the things, that's just one of the things that came to my mind is in Israel we saw, or, you know, when they were coming out in the wilderness, I kind of have always read it like a monolith. Like all of these people were worshiping this calf for the same reason. And it, maybe that was true. But I think now it's not that it's more nuanced than that, I guess. Right. The idol worship that we see, isn't perhaps a monolith, right. And the, and just like the people are not necessarily a monolith. Maybe the people who were storming the Capitol on Wednesday were, were, were, you felt United in their cause, but United in their actions, but felt that way for different reasons on the inside. Am I making sense? Am I, are you tracking or were you saying this? Speaker 1 00:55:56 I think it's really good. Uh, you know, I think, um, one, it goes, it goes back to, uh, people also, you know, they vote for different reasons and sometimes voting for that specific reason. That reason might be that idol, right? It might not be Trump. It might not be Republican as, and it might be because I want the unborn protected and the unborn, although that is important. And an implication of the gospel, it's an implication of the gospel. It's not the gospel, it's not Jesus. And so sometimes, and even on the other side with, I think what we struggle with as minorities of color, who, who, uh, who care for black lives or immigration, you know, um, we can naturally struggle with wanting to vote one way or the other, because our idol is wrapped up in caring for the vulnerable and or that specific group of people, the poor, the marginalized, right. Speaker 1 00:56:51 And, and because of that, I'd always compelled us to one of them one way or the other. And so I think that's, I think that's what you're probably getting at is the different reasoning and even different idols that compel us to vote a specific way. Um, like some of the people in the U S Capitol, you know, I don't know who knows if it's all, all of them find an idol in Donald Trump specifically, some might just have an idol of man, Mike, we, this is a free country. We literally just lost Georgia. We're losing the Senate. We lost Congress. Oh my gosh. And that I, those is we have to keep the country in, in, in, in, in contact with, and on track with the white people being in power that might be either IO. Right. Um, it could be a different, different, but no matter what, if that becomes your guide, then it's always going to naturally make you do dumb stuff. Speaker 1 00:57:54 Um, but no matter what, there's always that clear thread that has been attached to Trump, and he's been such a vocal piece to, to, um, you know, to enticing so much going on. And it just shows that lobbying being a leader, you have to have godly character if you don't. It really does. I mean, his disciples, he literally had his disciples out there who were living out in an unhealthy way because of how he has poured into them. And as leaders, as a leader, it's just so important. I think John Piper did it best his article before the election. I agree to everything with everything there. Cause he's like, I'm not voting for either, you know, I, I, and then he uses his platform to talk about how, how important it is to have good character. Um, and that's what you see. I think for me personally, you see Biden who has a better character, far better character. Speaker 1 00:58:50 I believe he's a decent person. He has that peaceful voice. I mean, it just something that I think people are along for, for four years, just we don't, I don't, I don't think people want to think about politics anymore, um, for, for at least four years. And, but then some of his policies, uh, are, are vicious in many ways to be honest with you. Um, but then on the other end, you have Trump who not only are many of his policies vicious, especially towards immigrants, he's done some good things like criminal justice reform. Uh, the TAC taxes were decent. Um, he has shut down some of the, uh, some, some, uh, organizations that had, that were like abortion clinics, but then he had, he had signed in, uh, you know, money to go to planned Parenthood. Uh, and then not only that coupled with his terrible character and his viciousness with his words, um, it's just, it's just been, it's just been profound to see how John Piper was just saying the man character matters deeply when it comes to, to a leader. And Speaker 0 01:00:04 That's something we can continue to keep up front as a church is that character matters deeply. Speaker 1 01:00:13 I think, uh, Russell said day yesterday. I think he said, character matters on a tweet and you know what we need, you're going to hear minorities like myself, talk who have platforms we're gonna continue to talk. Um, but because we need a lot, a lot more white people who have bigger platforms do to talk because, you know, we feel, we feel lonely sometimes. And I think when, uh, and I love Russell Moore, we've had a few conversations, um, you know, when he comes out and shares that, it means a lot to me to say for him to say things the way he does and how balanced he is, uh, on immigration and most issues pretty much. Um, and just come out and even today say, you know, I think president Trump can use, can you basically leave office? I mean, even before I was like, wow, that's prophetic. Like, and that's profound and it speaks volumes and it, you know, what is so profound about it, it's a white man using his privilege to love the marginalized. And that's what I, that's what I love about it and love our society and love Jesus. Um, and that, that's what we need more of to from, from, from pastors and leaders who are more, uh, even conservative light Russell Moore and, uh, uh, who are pastors and Christian leaders, Speaker 0 01:01:37 But yes, Russell Moore as a white man using his voice and his platform to have these conversations. And, but, but I will tell you one of the things that I know we don't have time to like really get into it now, cause I totally want to talk about, um, about your organization, but that has been one of the things that I personally have struggled with kind of going, what's my role, right? Because I was really even praying this specifically during election week because, um, you know, just, just with the understanding more and more that, whether it's, whether it's conversations we have, you know, at the, at the park, when we take the kids or if it's, you know, we have a blog or if we, if we're some, you know, internationally best-selling author or anything in between, we all have a voice and how are we using our voice, um, to encourage people and bring them, you know, and one of the things that I have been struck by, and I've mentioned this before in other and other conversations, because it's something that I'm, that I'm really I'm struggling with on both ends. Speaker 0 01:02:45 So I'm struggling with it personally, but I'm also struggling that it's a thing. And that is, um, exactly what you're talking about of white people using their voices. And so I will say this, I said, I'm mixed, I'm married to a white guy, but my features have changed. And my G geography has changed somewhat over my life. And so right now I would say for most people that look at me, they wouldn't name my heritage. They would just look at me and see a white woman, um, which is fine because I am half white. But when I was having a conversation with one of my black girlfriends over the summer, and I was kind of, we were lamenting together. And at the same time, it was kind of trying to overcome this feeling of helplessness. Like what do we do? Right. And I was, I was kind of, you know, just, just in this friend back and forth banter going, I don't even know what to do. Speaker 0 01:03:41 I don't know. And she said something to me, she just said, you need to keep talking because there are people who will only hear this message from someone who looks like, and I don't want to believe that that's true. I'm just going to say it, the bike POC voices that have been singing this song for decades, for decades, um, they need to be heard. They have done the work. They have lived experience. They have learned experience. They have education in this space. They have incredibly prophetic and profound voices to say something that I would stress to today. Um, and so it's disheartening to me on one side because I don't want to believe that that's true. I don't want to believe that there may be people or groups of people who will only hear this message from someone who looks like Russell Moore. You know, they're made to only hear this message from someone who looks like me and there may be people who only hear it from someone who looks like Tim Keller. Speaker 0 01:04:50 Um, I'm not putting myself in the same box as any of those guys, but I'm just saying, you know, it's, it's kind of one of those things. So I don't want to believe that's true at the same time, if it is true, then it's a reminder and it's a call for each of us to use the voice and the space that we have. Right. So it's been kind of difficult, you know, for me to kind of admit that and then, you know, to kind of go forward with, okay, what does that actually look like? You know, what can I do on the ground? What can I say? Um, which that may be a good segue into what you're doing on the ground, besides your encouragement on social media. Um, you have been on the ground, like literally on the ground at the border working for years. So I want to end by, by giving you the opportunity to share some things about immigration, uh, coalition and we'll link it so that everyone can like read up more and see more about what you're doing and how they can, um, help, but tell us about what, what it is that you are doing on the ground. Speaker 1 01:06:02 Yeah. So, um, yeah, I have the honor and privilege of running this core organization called the immigration coalition where, uh, we provide clean drinking water, um, to, uh, Latino immigrant and migrant communities along the U S Mexico border. And then we started this work as an organization. We've been out three years now. So we do a ton of other stuff, like a national conference. We have backseats different resources that are biblically balanced, but those are the main thing we do. Uh, we actually re we structured organization to do that. And so we, um, uh, we provide this clean drinking water. They must really started doing it at the camp in Madam modals, where there are around a thousand families that are seeking this waiting to seek asylum, uh, right off of Brownsville, Texas, right. 600 feet, uh, from, from the border, uh, waiting to seek asylum. Speaker 1 01:07:03 Um, and, and they're just living there. And so, uh, they were in need of clean drinking water and, uh, say about may June. And so we said, mailer, we provide them with water as an organization. And so we started providing clean drinking water to them every week. And we've been doing that ever since where all the families have clean water every week before they were drinking and bathing while they may still actually many of them bays with our water too. Cause we've actually had to up the number because the numbers are growing. Um, and so, uh, this water's been good for them because it's clean drinking water, uh, previously, before they were drinking the Rio Grande water. But it's very traumatic for many of them because many of them, many immigrants trying to cross die or drown, or is it just a lot of trauma there? Speaker 1 01:07:54 Um, it's, it's really even hard to cross the border because of cartel. They control the water. And so, uh, many of the kids were drinking the water and it's just not even, even from like a bacteria perspective is not healthy men. The kids were getting worms. And so we said, let's provide the water, let's do it. And we've been doing it ever since may, may or, and we've been providing water, uh, every, every week to each family. And it's been a huge blessing for us. And, uh, and so, uh, that a month and a half ago, right before Christmas, actually on December 14th, we launched, uh, we found another community and they're called colonias. So in Spanish it's called Colonia. So what they are Columbia or communities that are in deep need of, uh, of, of clean water, they lacked tremendous resources on the U S Mexico side, not just on Mexico, but on the us side. Speaker 1 01:08:49 And these communities of Latino, migrant immigrant families that live undocumented that just have no resources at all. They don't live within like city limits. So it's hard for them to even give a housing infrastructure. They alone, it's just, it's just, it's just like third world along the entire US-Mexico border. And so when we started delivering water in that pink camp, we said, you know what, what if this was a, what if this is this a bigger problem along the border? So we started doing research and we found out that, um, you know, globally, obviously, but other organizations are doing this around the world, but one in nine people around the world, like access to safe drinking water every single minute, two people die because they, they lack water. Um, unsafe water kills nearly a thousand children every day. Um, and then more focusing on the border by 2060, uh, the water demand along the U S Mexico border will rise by 22%. Speaker 1 01:09:47 Um, US-Mexico border spanning 2000 miles is home to 13 million plus Latinos, immigrants, and migrants living in these colonias communities through acts who lack access to clean and safe drinking water. And then if you were to categorize the us Mexico border region as a state, they would be, they would rank last and access to healthcare. Second and death rates due to hepatitis third and deaths related to diabetes last in per capita income. Uh, and first in the number of school children living in poverty, and then first the number of uninsured school children. Um, many of them get sick because of the lack of access to clean water. And so there's a, there was this huge thing. I was like, man, this is way bigger than we thought. And I was like, man, this is such a cool issue too, because I'm like, it's not super political. Speaker 1 01:10:36 Everyone can get around a child and mother and father, everyone deserves clean water. And our approach has been, so our approach was like, okay, this is different though, because along the US-Mexico border, it's not like we're in Africa or another country. And they're just, there's those villages they're living in jungles. And you build a well, they're actually around cities, right? So it's just different. It's like, well aware of that sound cool. Maybe we'll do that one day. We're like, well, our strategy has, has been able, we've had to do a different type of strategy because the city actually has sewage and things of that sort. But these colonias live in areas where there's no sewage as our has been okay. Along the border, we'll find because there's be cities and these towns that do have sewage, we're not in the jungle or there's not villages right within a, we're going to, we're going to identify the communities in need, build relationship with the communities, get to know them, uh, find out the need that they need specifically when it comes to water, implement the best water solution at the camera's water jugs that are recyclable because we want them to be processed, um, at the, at the Colonia ass community that we just, that we just launched a month and a half ago, we're providing, uh, we have six water tanks that have thousands of gallons of water. Speaker 1 01:11:51 They get filled up from the city with clean air, clean, clean drinking water, uh, every Monday. Um, and so families have, have clean water in these tanks every week. Uh, we train actually at, at the same time when we, when we do find these communities and build relations with the community leader. And when we implement the water, we train the leaders to, to sustain the water and own own it themselves so that they take care of it better. So at the think camp in Madam mottoes, uh, uh, we have a guy on the ground who helps us, but most of the time, he, he doesn't really have to be there because we trained to a sound secrets to where waiting to seek asylum. And they're the ones, and they're the leaders who wait for the truck to come in. They give everybody a ticket, they're handling all that. Speaker 1 01:12:36 It's amazing. And just, it brings value to them too. And we also, um, and then also in the Colonia, we're teaching some of them we're teaching them in now, but many of them have had to clean the tanks for the clean water out of sustain it, to make sure you're watching the water so that it doesn't, uh, you know, uh, it doesn't tip over or someone doesn't vandalize it or whatever it may be. Um, and then from there, can we go to, well, how do we invite churches and organizations and people of Goodwill who want to be a part of what we do? And so, um, uh, we we've been able to, to say, Hey, if you want to sponsor a family, you can sponsor a family for $4 a month. Um, either in the tech camp or the, the, um, you know, the other Colonia community, uh, you can sponsor a family for $4 a month with give them a clean water every week, or there's these. Speaker 1 01:13:26 We asked people, Hey, if you want to give a one-time donation for future water projects, you can do that as well. Um, it helps us to continue the work. And so right now, we, um, with, when it comes to our numbers right now, we're in two locations, we just started, uh, eight months ago. And so one of the things Alexis that we're wanting to do is we don't want to build 70 Wells in three years or, or, or being 70 communities, right. Um, we want to, uh, take our time building relationships with the communities, get to know them, implement the water solutions that are, that are needed. And then over time, continue to build a relationship and have churches and people of Goodwill going down there. And, and every year wanting to say, was there one or two communities that we can go into? We don't want to go into a ton cause we don't want to lose that relationship. Speaker 1 01:14:17 Um, and then also because we partner with the communities in the cities to provide the clean water, um, we, we also want to also advocate for the city to say, man, this organization is giving water to this colonial community and the people have taken ownership of it and they're taking theirs. They're stewarding it. Well, we need to invest money to build sewage in this community because you have these colonials communities because that are in these areas with no water, they look like war torn areas, and then you go five blocks down the road, into the house with sewage. And it's nice. And it's just like, this is not a whole new, this is a whole new area that we're trying to tackle and no organization has done this yet. So we're learning as we go and doing the work. Um, and so now, because of these two locations, we are, um, our impact cause so far on eight months, um, we've, we're, we're serving currently 4,000 Latino immigrant migrant families and the pink camp and the colonias community, uh, 8,000 plus people in total, uh, we provide 5,500 gallons of clean water every week. Speaker 1 01:15:29 And over the past eight months, we've provided around 105,000 plus gallons of water. And it's all been because we've had people around the country who have partnered with us, churches, organizations, people of Goodwill. Uh, it's been amazing because we also wanted to make it affordable for people to want to partner with us. We didn't want to, you know, make it expensive. It's $4 a month and you take care of a family. It's been a huge blessing for people. And it's also been a huge blessing for, um, those who aren't even Christians. We had Buddhists and atheist and folks who are, don't even believe in Jesus, have anybody to say, Hey, but we love what you're doing. We want to come alongside you and help. So it's been great. And this year we plan to go ahead in the next two, three months going to another colonias community. Speaker 1 01:16:19 Um, and then we're also going to find one in on the U S side. And then also our plans are to, uh, many of the immigrants and migrants that come through the strenuous journey to the U S and we're not, we're not for undocumented immigration. We're not trying to get political on it. Um, but a lot of times the families are dehydrated when they do cross the border, or even before they crossed the border. Um, many are children that are forced here. And so we, we are also trying to implement a plan where we can, uh, have strategic areas, knowing where they, where they go and where they come to place, uh, water, water jugs in specific places for families to see the water, to get nursed in their, in their time of coming to the, to the country. Oh my goodness. I keep thinking about $4, you know, like, like Speaker 0 01:17:10 How many families could a family help. Right. You know, when we, when we start thinking about that, okay, Speaker 1 01:17:16 It's been amazing people, you know, people have sponsored several families, some have just said, Hey, I just want to sponsor one. But, uh, one of the things about our organization, we're very transparent as you noticed, we're very open. We share everything. Um, we try to, when we want our donors and people who partner and champion with us to feel that they're a part of what we're doing. And hopefully when COVID suppresses, we can actually have trips down there where they're not so much mission trips, where they come and, you know, we're saving them. It's more of a learning experience. And because it's the border, it's also hard, you know, you think about correlations like charity, water, and compassion international. They take pictures of the people's faces. And for us, we're dealing with migrants and immigrants and sort of like even identity issues and trauma. And, and so we're just in a whole nother world when it comes to this. So, um, you know, learning what that looks like is, is, uh, has been, has been, has been interesting and it's been fun and we're just excited to continue to work. I love, I love it. I absolutely love it, Speaker 0 01:18:22 Man. I love it too. Thank you for sharing what you guys are doing. And, and I I'm, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna, we're gonna link to this. And so definitely, I mean, I'm going to talk to my husband and see, cause I'm like $4, come on $4. You know, how many, how many families can we sponsor for $4? Right. And so email me if I, if you don't hear from me in the next week, but that's going to happen, but I would encourage everyone else to do the same. Um, for $4, we can do this. And, and like you've heard Randell is transparent. Um, and I, cause I think sometimes that's one of the things is that people are nervous right? About who they're getting involved with when it comes to donations and things like that. But on the same on kind of along those same lines, one of the things that I really hope people check out is the resources that you have for Christians on your site. That, to me, um, is, uh, one of the most notable parts about what you guys are doing because, um, let's, let's change that 12% statistic, right? Let's, let's, let's educate ourselves and use the resources that you're providing for free to, to do as tools to do that. So that we can, as believers have a biblically based view when it comes to immigration. And so, Speaker 1 01:19:43 And we've learned that leading with politics is harder to change someone's heart. But when we say Jesus tells us to welcome the immigrant and give drink to the thirsty, here's four, here's a way to provide water for immigrants and migrants. And then people invest. We've actually seen more, people have changed to say, Oh man, why is, why do they need water? Okay. The immigration system is broken. Can you tell me? And so that's almost been like our end to help equip and train people to think about immigration even more broadly. Speaker 0 01:20:15 Absolutely. Absolutely. Because it, because it, it helps us to have skin in the game, um, right. Uh, it helps us to, to be having investment in, um, in the work that somebody is doing. And so, um, and so, yeah, I think it's, it goes back to, in a way, especially if you're financially contributing, it goes back to the Matthew scripture where Jesus tells us where our treasure is there. Our heart will be also. And I used to always flip that. Um, but I learned, I, and I am learning that really, what he's trying to communicate to us is when you're putting your dollars somewhere, whether you want it to or not, your heart is going to chase your dollars. And so it's like if we can put our dollars into an organization like yours, our heart is going to chase that. And what you guys are putting out there is is, is the, is the, is the fruit we're going to say, Oh, well how, how can we look at this in a biblically right. Where I'm invested. Speaker 1 01:21:11 Exactly, exactly. That's the goal, that's the goal for us. Speaker 0 01:21:14 I appreciate it so much rundown. Where can we find you? And I will link everything in the, um, in the notes for this episode. Speaker 1 01:21:27 Yeah. You can find, uh, find me on Facebook, um, Instagram and Twitter at Dale underscore Trevino, and then you can find the immigration coalition on, on the Facebook, Twitter and Instagram by just typing the immigration coalition. Um, but yeah, follow us and the contact us, if you have any questions, Speaker 0 01:21:49 Thank you so much. I just, I really appreciate your ministry. I just, I just feel like I could tell you that all day, but thank you so much for your ministry. And I just encourage everybody to, um, to follow Rondo on the work of the immigration coalition. It is so valuable. The work that you're doing at the border is valuable for the people that you're serving there. But I just want to say, um, as, as someone who lives in Texas on this side, um, the work that you're doing to help provide information is really ministering on this side, um, on this side of the border to believers, including me. So thank you so much for, for everything that you're providing. Speaker 1 01:22:28 Well, I appreciate you, and I appreciate you having a, uh, having a podcast, willing to talk about these issues. This is really important. Speaker 0 01:22:35 Amen. Well, we're, we're all trying to use our voice, how we can. Thanks Randell. Have a great weekend. Thanks. The links for all the resources mentioned in today's episode can be found in the show notes, music and podcast production by Seth the city. Be sure to give us a review on iTunes and subscribe at your favorite podcast listening app, you can also visit us at that. Makes total sense.com.