Speaker 1 00:00:06 Welcome to That Makes Total Sense, a podcast dedicated to exploring God's generosity and justice. I'm Alexis ett, a Christian aiming to ask good questions and encouraging you to do the same. Every one of us is wired by God to live out generosity and justice. But the how sometimes eludes that makes total sense is a way for us to get together, posture ourselves as learners, and challenge one another, to practice generosity and justice in a tangible way every day. Hey
Speaker 2 00:00:42 Everybody, I am just so, I'm so thrilled to be holding this gorgeous, gorgeous book from Jennifer Tucker in my hot little hands. It is called Breath as Prayer. Calm Your Anxiety, Focus Your Mind, and Renew Your Soul. And Jen's here with me today. Hey Jen. Hey, I'm so glad to be here. I am, I am so excited about you being here and I want to get into the book and let you introduce yourself a little bit. But if you don't mind, I would love to share the story of how I got this book in my hands. And we got to be across from Zoom together, cuz I'm not even sure that you, you may not even know it yet. Um, so one morning I was taking my kiddos to school and we have two girls and two boys, and I think I may have just been driving my boys that particular morning.
Speaker 2 00:01:36 And so we're going and we are, um, you know, having, I'm sure it was super spiritual conversation, you know, somewhere between, we probably forgot to open the devotional that morning and then like whatever was on the mix radio station <laugh>, and something happened and I was like, you know what, something that I've been trying to practice lately is this thing called a breath prayer. Let's try that this morning. And so I forgot what it was. I think I may have just said like, this is a really old one. Like, you know, um, Lord Jesus have mercy on me, right? And so, um, so it's kind of explaining to them a little bit how I understand a breath prayer. And we'll talk about that a bit more. And, um, drive home. Could you not sit down at my computer to do a little bit of work and like five minutes ding from your, a rep from your publisher.
Speaker 2 00:02:30 Is there any chance you'd wanna have? You know, like, and I read breath pair and I'm like, Wait a minute, what? And so I emailed back to your contact and I'm like, Listen, you're never gonna, so like a yes, please send me the book and b you're never gonna believe that I literally was just doing this 10 minutes ago with my kids in the car. This just feels like one of those god's timing kind of things. It was in absolutely incredible. And then the, the, the, the ending to that, the, the epilogue if you will to this, I told you that I read this in one sitting essentially on the way home, on the plane from a retreat where we were doing spiritual practices including breath prayers, <laugh> all week. And so it was like this perfect wraparound. And so I am just absolutely thrilled to have you here and to be able to kind of, to share that with you and with the listeners because this felt to, to say to Lisa's felt incredibly timely for me.
Speaker 3 00:03:29 I love that so much. That's so cool. <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:03:32 Isn't that fun? Isn't that fun? Um, so Jen, we were chatting before, and of course this is a podcast about exploring God's generosity and justice. And so there might be people going, I do not understand, but because this is not necessarily a, a justice centered book, but when I read what you have to say and do these practices through the lens of thinking about Breath J just thinking about breath as a gift from God mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but thinking about the ability as, as you'll talk about, to slow down and combine prayer with breath as a gift from the Lord, as a way to explore his generosity. It it just, it just gets all over me in the best way. So, um, I'm gonna let you talk now, but um, tell <laugh>, tell us how you got here. Cuz I'm gonna say I'm 40 something years old and breath prayer is not something that I grew up doing in my right upbringing. And I gather from the book that you have a similar experience.
Speaker 3 00:04:40 Yeah, I did not grow up in very liturgical churches. We didn't have a lot of these type of practices. Not that that's a bad thing, it's just a different way of, you know, experiencing our faith, uh, different type of faith community. Um, I had never heard of breath prayer before. I'm, you know, in my forties as well. And honestly I didn't learn about it until a couple years ago as I was just really, we were in the, um, my daughter had been diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder. She had severe panic attacks. Um, and we were, we dove head first into the world of mental health and trying to figure out how do we help her in that process. I had to get real honest with my own anxiety. I had to face my own struggles with it cuz for decades I had kind of just pushed it to the side, not really addressed it, not seen it for what it was, all these physical symptoms, all the, you know, the, the perfectionism and the people pleasing and the overworking that I having to control every little tiny thing in my life.
Speaker 3 00:05:38 Just so I didn't feel this anxiety because I felt like either I didn't have enough faith or I wasn't praying the right way, or I must not trust God enough. Why am I feeling anxious? I shouldn't feel this way. So there wasn't a shame surrounding anxiety for me, but, so it wasn't until my daughter was diagnosed and really struggling, I had to get real, real honest with myself about my own anxiety learn. We, through that process, we learned so much just physically, physiologically what anxiety really is in our body. Um, the way that it, it's not just all in your mind, it's in your body to, And so through that process, trying to find strategies to help manage anxiety in more healthy ways, I did not manage my anxiety in healthy ways for very long time. Um, so trying to shift my thinking on anxiety, um, and manage it in more healthy ways for myself as well as for my daughter.
Speaker 3 00:06:35 I just stumbled upon breath prayer on a, a website. Someone had written a little bit about it and I was like, I was fascinated by it because we had learned through therapy and the psychiatrist and like, one of the first things we learned was the importance of the breath in calming anxiety in helping to calm panic attacks. Um, that the breath is the bridge between the brain and the body. And so how significant that, and it is, it's a gift. God gave us this breath and it connects to what's called our autonomic nervous system. And so, um, it can literally calm the body when we slow our breathing because it tells our brain, Hey, we're safe. We're not in any kind of danger cuz anxiety is our body, you know, reacting to some kind of stress or threat, you know, And a lot of times we react to things that aren't really a danger to us.
Speaker 3 00:07:26 But, you know, because we live in a fallen world with bodies that are broken and dysregulated often, you know, we, anxiety is something we're gonna deal with. Um, and some people more in more extreme ways than others. But anyway, so breath prayer is just something I stumbled upon and I found it very helpful for me because it combined both those breathing, which I learned from therapists, psychiatrists, doctors, how important that is for the body with prayer, which I knew was already a significant and important in our faith to connect us to God. And so where breathing is the bridge between the brain and the body, prayer is the bridge between our soul and God, our maker, our creator. And so when we combine those two things, for me, it's been a powerful tool that kind of bridges body, mind, soul, soul, spirit, all of it together in this amazing gift that God's given us here with our breath.
Speaker 3 00:08:20 And so I wrote a little blog post about it at the time cuz I, and I don't write a whole lot on my little blog, like maybe one or two a year. It's really sad, but I, I love the breath prayer so much. And so I shared a few of them and what it was, cuz I was so excited cuz I had not ever heard of it before and I couldn't find a whole lot on it. Although it's a Christian practice that's been around for centuries. It's not practiced in modern day as often, at least not in my experience. Um, and so anyway, fast forward a little, I loved them, but I didn't pray them like consistently like daily. But it was something that I kind of kept in my little mental health toolbox to pull from what I needed. Fast forward to last February and my daughter was admitted to the hospital up in Atlanta Children's Hospital.
Speaker 3 00:09:08 She was very, very, very sick, more sick than we realized as we drove to the ER that night. Um, she ended up getting admitted, we're still in the middle of covid restrictions, so my husband couldn't be with us. It was just me, her, and a nurse in the room monitoring her and her heart, her, she was all strung up to all these wires, connected to monitors. And it's like two in the morning. And I was so overwhelmed and I was so just, I felt so alone and unsure. I did not know we had a new diagnosis and I had no idea how to walk this road that was being laid out ahead of us. How in the world are the next few days, next few weeks, next few months gonna play out? I had no idea how to even take the next step forward. I was so overwhelmed.
Speaker 3 00:09:56 I had, I felt like I had already prayed in those prior three, four years that we had been on this long journey. I prayed everything I needed to pray. I had begged God in every way possible for healing, for strength, for mercy, for all the things. And at that moment in the hospital, I didn't have any more words. I literally could not think. I was so overwhelmed and I could feel my, the physical symptoms of anxiety building in my own body. I was trembling, literally shaking, sweating. I couldn't catch my breath. I was crying. I just was overcome with the most anxiety I've ever felt in my life. Most fear I've ever felt. And I didn't know what to do. I didn't even know what to say to God anymore. And, but at that moment, and I know it was the Holy Spirit, he brought to my mind a breath prayer that I had learned a few months prior when I first, I had written out several of these little breath prayers and I had tucked him away and shared a few on my website.
Speaker 3 00:10:53 And God just brought to my mind very simple prayer from Psalm 23, Lord, you are my shepherd. I have all that I need. And so I just was like, Okay, I'm just gonna breathe my way through this. So I inhaled, Lord, you're my shepherd, and I exhaled. I have all that I need. And I just kept doing that. Inhale, Lord, you my shepherd and I exhaled. I have all that I need. As I slowed my breathing, I could feel my body start to calm down. The trembling resided, you know, and my breathing just slowed. I could feel my heart slowed down a bit, but at the same time, I'm focusing my mind on the truth that, you know, the Lord is my shepherd. What is a shepherd? He's caring for us. He loves us. He's providing for us even right here in this hospital room.
Speaker 3 00:11:46 And there's a dark night. Not only was it dark outside, but it was dark in my soul. Like I couldn't see a single step forward. But I was reminded in that moment that he's my shepherd right there with me. His presence hasn't left. And I have all that I need because I have him. I may not have the answers for tomorrow, but he is the answer. And I have him, I may not know what steps lie ahead, but he does. And I can trust him. I may not know what the future holds, but I know that he's holding us. And so in that moment, I felt a piece that I really can't describe other than the piece of God overcome me. And I was able to fall asleep that night on that hard final couch in the hospital through that breath prayer. And so it was at that moment, those breath prayers became a lifeline to me through that hospital stay.
Speaker 3 00:12:38 The next day my anxiety was through the roof again, because doctors came in and things were happening and I was overwhelmed yet again. But I slowed down, took some deep breaths, and really it was that one breath prayer. I think I said that one, Lord, you my shepherd high ball that I need, I repeated that so many times through those weeks in the hospital. I'd even walk the halls breathing and praying when I would get overwhelmed. And it just helped so much to calm both my anxiety, but also focus my mind on Christ, on the truth that's bigger than my feelings. Yes, my feelings are real, but they're not always telling me the full truth <laugh>. And they can be so overwhelming. But if I can turn my mind to Christ and through the truth in his word, it literally gives a piece that I just, it it, I couldn't find it anywhere else then through him.
Speaker 3 00:13:28 And so really breath prayers became my lifeline through those days. Um, and it's really weird you mention how God works, you know, because I was, it was right in the middle, I think it was like day 10 or 11 of the hospital state. And I had been literally praying breath prayers through every day. And I was checking my computer, my emails, and I had an email from an editor who had happened to read that one little blog post I wrote about breath prayer and said, Hey, we think this might make a great book. Would you be willing to write about breath prayer? I'm literally in the hospital sitting next to my daughter, hooked up all, all these wires. I have no idea how these weeks ahead are gonna go. And I'm not a author. I don't, I've never considered, my wheelhouse is more illustrations and graphic design.
Speaker 3 00:14:09 That's what I, I love being in the background. I'm, I work with a bunch of authors and I love it, but I don't ever consider myself an author. So anyway, so I got offered to write a book and I'm like, Yeah, I don't think I can do that. I am in the hospital <laugh>, I don't think I can do any work right now. But when she said it was about breath prayer, I just, God would not let that go because it was almost like a gift he gave me for those weeks and months that I walked through after that writing this book, the process of writing these breath prayers and focusing my mind on those truths, um, it literally was therapeutic to me and it got me through all those hard days. And so I never sought out writing this book, but I'm so grateful for the gift that it was to me from God to get me through all those hard months.
Speaker 3 00:15:03 I didn't quite think through to the opposite other side of it. Like now it's like published now in the world and that's kind of very nerve wracking. But hey, if it can help someone else, this little tool, it's really not, you know, I'm not an expert in any way. I didn't come up with it. It's been around for centuries. I'm really, I'm a mom with anxiety that has a kid with anxiety and we've been fumbling our way through this. And I just discovered breath prayer as a tool that's been so powerful and helpful to me. And I just hope that it can help maybe someone else out there who's looking for a way to, to just calm their anxiety but also strengthen your faith at the same time. It is possible. God's given us this amazing gift. And so that's kind of the story behind this book. It was birthed out as some really, really hard, hard, hard days, um, when I was literally at my weakest. But, um, God was, was strong through that and he gave me the strength to, to breathe and trust him through it all. So yeah.
Speaker 2 00:16:05 Thank you so much for sharing that. I mean, I know that that's, um, that's hard. Anytime anyone spends that kind of time in the hospital, there is wake that's left behind mm-hmm. <affirmative> of that. And so, um, yeah. So I just, you know, Yeah, I just wanna say that I'm just like recognizing that and, um, also just so encouraged that the Lord would, would give you the, the gift of, of work in that time to process, you know, to process that, you know, Um, and that it would just kind of fall, um, into your lab. That's, that's amazing. You, you mentioned that graphic design and illustration are kind of more your wheelhouse, and so mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, you know, we, I'll put the link into your, to your website and also for the books that people can see it, since this isn't a video podcast, but I do kind of wanna touch on the, uh, kinda how this book is laid
Speaker 3 00:17:06 Out. Sure.
Speaker 2 00:17:08 Because it, as I was reading it, I found the layout of it to be incredibly helpful. And so I just wanna put out there as this like, incredible teaser that Jen's illustrations are ridiculous. Like, in, in the best possible way. So like, every, every day if you read it kind of as a devotional, you know, every entry, I guess has some sort of beautiful artwork or, um, calligraphy, um, included in it. And, and that's something so, oh my goodness, we could go in a completely different direction, but I'm gonna keep us here. Um, but this is something that I think if I could kind of identify a way in which I experienced part of my faith upbringing, and this is not like, not not their own shade or anything, but it's like I, it now I kind of look and I go, it was a, it was disembodied to a degree, um, even to the point that, uh, appreciating beauty was something that I've kind of rediscovered, um, in my middle aged.
Speaker 2 00:18:17 And so this, this is one of the reasons I'm pointing this. It's just such a beautiful book. But you begin by, before we get to the entries, you begin by giving us several pages of, you know, what this is and what it isn't. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, which I think is really helpful. So a couple of things like that for me, one is when when I first started seeing my therapist, oh, like a lot of years ago mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, she and I was experiencing anxiety, and she would ask me this question, Where in your body are you feeling that? And I thought, this woman's a quack. Like, what, what do you mean where in my body? You know? And but it was like, but she, but she kind of invited me though to stop, right? To pause, to really notice, be mindful of my own body, which I think when we're, when we have anxious moments, it's very hard to do, right?
Speaker 2 00:19:21 It's very hard to slow down because everything, like you're saying, and you, and you go into this in the book, it's, it's on purpose to a degree the design that God has given us, right? Because we need to be able to kind of instinctually make a move if there actually is danger. But sitting in my therapist's office, having this conversation, I wasn't in right <laugh> danger, right? And so I was experiencing this, but, and, and what it did some amazing things for me and built, helped begin, build some habits, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative> for me, just stop and notice where in my body am I feeling that? And can I pinpoint this? And is there an actual reason or is this, you know, some sort of reaction or just asking those questions and noticing those things and really appreciating that God did make us as embodied beings.
Speaker 2 00:20:14 You know, we're not just souls, you know, dancing around that we have, Right. You know, we have faces and body parts and legs and arms and voices and, and, and eyeballs and, and we're embodied people and that includes breath. Yes. So that's, that's one thing that I think you, you help guide us, um, through that and understand. But the other thing is generationally we'll get this and probably, well, a lot of the people listening, my kids joke, because I would, before I start practicing breath bears and now sometimes just be funny, I'm, I'm like serenity now, right? Like <laugh>, we're sign feld it up serenity now. But I noticed this was really funny. Some, some, some woman on Etsy has these, uh, welcome mats that say serenity now. And one of them has serenity now on one side. You know how it's like, welcome home or see you later or whatever, and you flip it and it says insanity later, <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:21:11 And I'm like, I totally forgot. That was part of the joke, right? It's serenity now insanity later. Because it is possible to, you know, kind of let your, it enable your body to calm itself without incorporating that prayer aspect, without bringing, right, inviting the spirit into that process with us, which, which is cool that God has designed our bodies in such a way that we really can like, breathe through something and, and kind of to a degree calm ourselves down. But there's something missing there if we're doing that without the focus, uh, on prayer, without inviting the Lord into that space, without being mindful of him. You know, when you said, you know, the Lord is my shepherd. I have all that I need that I don't understand it, and I'm just so incredibly comfortable to say, I believe there's something mysterious that's happening in prayer.
Speaker 2 00:22:12 Right? That, that we can say those words to the Lord and he does something Yeah. That we can't fully understand in those moments because we're inviting him to do that. We're inviting him. So can you talk a little bit more about this kind of, um, what breath prayer? Because, because some people may not be familiar with it. For me, I, I did, wasn't introduced to it until probably about three years ago. So what, what is this and what is it kind of not as we're moving into this space, because you don't, even though I think the book is beautiful, you don't have to have the book to practice this. Like you said, you found it on the website somewhere. <laugh>, you can find this anywhere. We can, we can leave with some breath prayers and I hope we will at the end of our time together. Um, but for people kind of entering into this space maybe for the first time or it's new-ish to them, what is it and what is it not
Speaker 3 00:23:10 Sure. Well, breath prayers, I mean, basically they're very simple. It's, it's literally breath and a prayer. And so what it is, is you're slow. You're just slowing down. It's a way for us to practice being still in the presence of God. Um, you slow down and just slow your breath, breathe, inhale slowly and exhale slowly. And then you just incorporate a little small short little prayer. Um, all the breath prayers in my book are straight from scripture. It's very rooted in the word of God. So what we're doing, especially in times of anxiety, so it's hard to think, what do I pray? What do I even say? Um, and so, but God, God's word provides us so much that we can just pull from. And so we're just, we're gonna point right to god's where we're gonna pull from truth that he's already given us.
Speaker 3 00:23:58 And we're gonna remind our soul that truth in these moments. Um, and you don't have to only pray breath prayers when you're anxious. They're great to pray any time of the day. If you're not real comfortable with prayer, this might be a great way to start praying. I mean, they're very simple, very short, easy to learn. Um, it's also a great way to memorize scripture, to tuck it in your heart because you are repeating it over and over again. Um, but I do think in some faith traditions, maybe some people, depending on how you were raised, they might be put off a bit by the idea of breath prayer. Um, because breath work in general and meditative practices are practiced all around the world in lots of different religions. Um, a lot of people might consider this a bit new age or humanistic or maybe eastern religious like mysticism type thing.
Speaker 3 00:24:42 But I wanna, I made it very clear in the book, tried to distinguish that a bit, just so there is no misunderstanding because Christian breath prayer is not some new age practice. It's not new at all. It's been around for centuries, literally. Um, it's, it's not, it's rooted in scripture. Um, it's, we are focused not inward, a lot of other breath work and meditative practices. The idea is to focus inside for peace, to find peace within, to find the answers within you, um, or to empty your mind of all thoughts so that you can reach some state of nirvana, reach peace that way. Um, but with Christian breath prayer, we're kind of doing the opposite. We are not focused inward, we're focused upward toward God. We're focused putting our thoughts on him where our, the goal is not to empty our mind, but rather to fill our mind with truth.
Speaker 3 00:25:33 To kind of take all those feelings of anxiety, all those worries that are pressing in all the fears that we're feeling, and give those to God as we then take on his truth in that place. So we're literally changing the way that we think. We're responding to our anxiety in a new different way. Instead of letting it spiral us into a pit of worry and fear. And worst case scenarios, which I am really good at <laugh>, we're spiraling really fast to the very worst thing that could possibly happen. If I can pause and take a deep breath and re like just shift my thinking toward God towards some truth in his word, um, then it's gonna, If I, and the more I do that, the more consistently I change the way I'm responding to my anxiety, I stop, I slow down, I breathe deep, and I refocus my mind on the truth.
Speaker 3 00:26:24 It's gonna over time shift how I respond to my anxiety. I'm gonna more automatically go straight to Christ with those fears, with those worries, with those feelings. But like you were saying, you, we've gotta be in tune with our body. Recognize what are the, what does anxiety look like in me? Cuz everybody processes anxiety a little differently. Not all of our symptoms are gonna be the same. And some people experience anxiety much more significantly than others. Breath prayer is not a replacement for medical treatment or therapy. I think those are extremely powerful and needed also, and I wanna make that clear too. And I'm not trying to say that breath prayer is cure anxiety in any way, but they are a powerful tool that we have because it is this breath. God gave us this breath, okay? At the very beginning in Genesis, it was the breath of God that gave us life, that made us a living soul.
Speaker 3 00:27:13 And still it's his breath that moves in and out of our lungs that gives life to everyone of ourselves and our organs and our body. He's giving us life through our breath and we breathe all day long. We don't always think about our breath because we can do it automatically. Our body just breathes. We don't have to tell our body to breathe. Um, and God gives us that breath whether we realize it or not. Um, and it's his breath that's sustaining us. It's keeping us alive. Um, we don't always think about it that way, but it's such a gift he's given us. And it's a gift that, yeah, we do it automatically, but we can also do it intentionally. It's one of the few body processes that we can have control over. I can't control my heart rate just by saying, Okay, slow down heart or con regulate my blood pressure or, you know, I can't control my kidney function just by thinking it, but I can control my breath.
Speaker 3 00:28:03 And the breath is connected. It's, uh, to our lungs, which are then connected to that nervous system, our central nervous system and that autonomic nervous system. When we slow our breath, we literally triggers the vagus nerves in our body, which connects to our parasympathetic nervous system, which is what slows our heart rate. It that we have this thing in our brain called the amygdala, which a lot of people call the emotional brain. And then we've got the thinking brain. But when you're really anxious, the amygdala takes over and you kind of shuts down that thinking side of your brain. Like literally. It's why it's hard to think when you're really anxious or really worried. All you can think of is that feeling and that all those worries that are filling your mind, cuz you're amygdala is reving your body up to respond to whatever threat is in front it's feeling.
Speaker 3 00:28:48 Now whether there's a legitimate threat or not is another thing. But um, sometimes our brains can say, Yeah, this is a threat to you. You need to, like, for me, crowded rooms, I, that's where <laugh> my brain's like you, that you're not safe here. You need to get out <laugh>. So I can feel the symptom of anxiety, but if I can slow my breath, it triggers that parasympathetic nervous system tells your brain, Hey, you can chill out. We're safe. We're not in any danger. Look how slow we're breathing. And your heart will slow down so your body will kind of catch up and then your thinking side of your brain can take over. That's what's a good time to shift our thoughts to truth, what's really happening here. What does God really say? Inviting him into our struggle when we pray, we're, like you said, we're inviting him in to say, Hey God, this is how I'm feeling.
Speaker 3 00:29:35 He's not mad at us when we're anxious. He's not waiting to strike us down when we're afraid. All those, for a long, long time I felt like my anxiety was bad. Like it's a sin. Like I am doing something wrong. I'm not living out my faith, right? If I'm still feeling anxious. But really it was my body overreacting to whatever it, it perceived as a threat in my life. Whether it was a stranger walking down the road that I thought, you know, like there's all kinds of things that really aren't threats to me, but my body reacts as if they are. Um, but I felt a lot of shame surrounding my anxiety when I would read verses about Do not be anxious for anything. Do not worry about your life. Um, and all the times of the Bible when it says, do not fear, Yeah, God tells us those things, but it's not with a voice of condemnation.
Speaker 3 00:30:20 Like, you better not do this or else, you know, they'll be back consequences or you're not living the right life. He's, it's a voice of compassion just like we are with our kids. Like, I remember there's so many times my girls have come to me in the middle of the night scared they had a nightmare or there the dark scared them or there was a crack or a shadow that they were afraid of. I didn't yell at them. How dare you be afraid that, you know, I wasn't angry with them. What did I do? I said, Hey, I invited them up into my arms, I held them close and I said, It's okay. I'm right here. You're safe. You don't have to be afraid. And that's what God's telling us through scripture. He knows we're gonna be anxious. He knows we're gonna worry. He knows we're gonna be afraid.
Speaker 3 00:31:02 Those are all common normal human emotions. And we live in a fallen world with dysregulated bodies. And we might be anxious over something we don't need to be anxious about, but that's okay. God understands. He just wants us to go to him. Let him hold us and remind us you're safe. I'm with you. You don't have to be afraid. You don't have to be anxious. I'm here. And so for me, that was that shift in my understanding of anxiety and how the Bible talks about anxiety was so powerful and significant to me. Cuz then I could let go all that shame and all that trying to push my anxiety aside and I was able to face it for what it is and work on more healthy ways to manage it in my life. I could recognize, okay, this is my body feeling anxious, like you said, identify where in my body is this, what's causing it? Is there a cause and what can I do to help And breath prayer has been a great tool for me to kind of that initial calming my body and turning my mind to Christ. Um, it's not the the one and done thing, but it is definitely something that has helped me so, so much. And I don't know if I went off track there, but I hope that explained <laugh> kinda what they're No,
Speaker 2 00:32:21 That's, no, that's wonderful. And I, I am glad that you touched on the, um, on the shame piece, you know, um, because that, uh, has been, that has been ruined my life as well. And I think that that's not an entirely uncommon situation. You know, um, I have, I have heard that language, I have repeated that language of this is, this is a command, you know, not to worry, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and, and man, if, if, if, if anyone has ever kinda struggled with like a, you know, even I don't wanna use chronic in the, in the, in the medical sense, but like, kind of like a anxious habitually really con kind of constantly like I did as a kid. Like that's like the worst possible thing you could do is like, tell me that I'm doing something that's bad or breaking the rules like that. I'm gonna just feel more anxious about it. Right?
Speaker 3 00:33:12 Right. Exactly.
Speaker 2 00:33:14 So that's really hard, you know? So I'm, so I am thankful that you, uh, that you touched on that part too, because this is, it, it, it can make a difference in how we imagine God responding to our anxiety and thinking about the church fathers and mothers practicing this centuries ago. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, just kind of gives me warm fuzzies, you know, thinking about, thinking about that there was different language then for some of the things that we're talking about now. Sure. But similar feelings, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And, and so to think about them practicing these same things is, is really encouraging to me. It feels like this is, you know, cloud of witnesses kind of stuff. Um, I am curious if you would wanna talk about the illustrations. Okay. <laugh>, you know, the, the front of the book is beautiful. It's, it's flowers and the shape of lungs, which is just so creative.
Speaker 2 00:34:20 And I know that that's your background. And so was there a connection for you, or maybe if you can des describe it, if there, if there was a connection for you between or among, you know, all of these things that we're talking about this anxiety that you were experiencing, you know, yourself and, and in your family, but also the, the understanding and practicing of breath, prayers, the writing potentially mm-hmm. <affirmative> and, but also the, the drawing. I just kind of been interested in exploring that kind of full embodiment and that art and beauty that a accompanies this because we can read about this. You can, you, you could, instead of this being a 200 page book, this could be a five page pamphlet on breath wear, right? Sure. This could be, this could be the website that you read, right? You know, on breath. Right. You know, just a, just a few words to describe it. But this is these, all of these things that accompany it just kind of in, I can't put the words, that's why I'm asking you. It kind of fills it out and a different way. Yeah. So how does this art accompaniment, how does that minister to, to you and how do you hope it would minister to us?
Speaker 3 00:35:29 Well, for me personally, I get a lot of my inspiration from nature. You'll notice I do a lot of flowers, a lot of botanicals. I mean, there's some other things, things, but mostly that's kind of my wheelhouse. And I think that's because I find a lot of peace outta nature too, and God's creation when I'm surrounded by creation, um, I find it easier to breathe <laugh>. Like I can take a deep breath when I go out into the woods or on a hike. I just love that. I love being surrounded by his creation. Um, and so for me, that gives me, I don't know, I just feel connected to God when I'm out in the midst of his creation. And so to be able to bring that into illustrations is always calming to me. And so I was trying to, when I thought through, um, and working through and I had a bunch of different directions at first I wasn't sure where I was gonna go with because they want it fully illustrated.
Speaker 3 00:36:19 I'm like, ugh, um, what do I do? So I just thought, what brings me peace and calm? What colors calm me? What, what, um, types of things would kind of inspire calm and peace to me and a lot. So a lot of it is nature. I did the, the lungs on the front. I named them flourishing lungs. Cause I feel like, you know, we can flourish when we invite God into our breathing and into our, you know, um, we connect our mind, body, soul to him as a way that we can flourish. He created us to live an abundant life. He doesn't want us to be deep underneath piles of worry and stress and anxiety. He's given us a way to be free from that. Um, it's not always easy and it made for each person take a little different route. But he's, you know, I just feel like he's given us such a, so many ways that he has, um, gifted to us to give us an abundant life in a flourishing life, even through our struggles.
Speaker 3 00:37:20 It's not saying that we're gonna be free of anxiety the rest of our life where we can be free of all illness or afflictions. That's just not the reality of what we live. There will be suffering and there will be hard times and there will be dark days. But we can have peace even in the midst of it. And we can flourish even in the midst of it because we have God in the midst of it. And if we can really, I mean, if I can just, and I think I've only grasped a fraction of it. His presence with me in my life, like every time I even get a glimpse of that is just overwhelming to me. The gift that he's given us, that he's with us even in the middle of it all. You know, he doesn't promise that we'll be free of it all, but he's there with us in the midst of it all.
Speaker 3 00:38:04 And so that can bring peace even if our, our body doesn't feel peace, like these feelings we have and the, the physical symptoms we have are very, very real. And those who deal with chronic illness, chronic pain, those who have mental health conditions that they live with on a daily basis, they know this in a very real and deep way. Um, just because you're experiencing those things doesn't mean God has left you. Doesn't mean that you're abandoned. Doesn't mean that you're alone. Doesn't mean that he doesn't care and that he's not just as faithful to hearing your prayers. Um, we don't always understand the why, why do some people have to struggle so much with, with these mental health conditions and others don't. But I think when, when we, um, recognize that God's there with us through it all, no matter how the degree that you're struggling and suffering, there can still be peace even in the midst of that.
Speaker 3 00:38:59 And I do believe he can. He can give us that hope that we so desperately need when it's so hard to see that light. Um, and so, um, I, the illustrations for me was part of my process of <laugh>. I mean, it calms me just to, again, it's another way for me to focus my mind on something away from the worries and the, the fears that can flood so easily for me, especially during those really hard times. Um, so if I can start drawing and doodling and it, it does, that's a, that's a a way that I, I can worship too in that I can invite God in cuz I can pray as I draw and as I and I did, I prayed through all these illustrations, you know, and it's just, you know, not necessarily always breath prayers, but just a ongoing conversation with God.
Speaker 3 00:39:48 And, um, so yeah, it kind of all works together for me. It's that whole, it's the whole thing. It's the mind body, soul, spirit, all of it. It's all interconnected by design. God made us that way intentionally. We like to disconnect them and put 'em in compartments and like somehow separated a lot of times. But gosh, it all works together. And what's going on in my body's gonna affect my mind and my, what's happening in my soul, my connection to God, how, you know, sin in my life. Like all these things all affect every other part of me. So being aware of that, and really it's the slowing down and paying attention that's the key for me. Um, when I draw it, I'm slowing down and I'm, you know, not rushing at a rushing pace. Not super busy running here and there. I've really had to learn how to slow my life down.
Speaker 3 00:40:39 I don't need to live at the pace of the world around me. I'm more at peace when I can go slow. And I think that's, that's, um, for me, kind of the breath prayer slows me down. The drawing slows me down. It just, those are good for me. Cuz I tend to just keep myself busy so I can avoid all the <laugh> the realities of my stress and anxiety. But that's not helpful. That was not a helpful strategy. But I did that for years. I mean, I ran full speed and I kept myself working so, so, so hard. Um, but all it did was wear me down and make my anxiety worse really in the long run. So, yeah, I don't know. Did that answer the question,
Speaker 2 00:41:17 <laugh>? Yeah, no, no, it did. Thank you so much for, for indulging me in that for a moment. I mean, I, um, I'm like the epitome of not an artist in any way at all. Like, my kids who can draw, um, you know, like, mom, that's creepy. Like even a stick figure is like, Oh, that's creepy. But so I think two things. Like, you know, one, one thing that I thought is just like how beautiful the body of Christ is because I'm like this, it's, it's, it's, it's helping you in your process and your, you know, it's the act of the drawing is, is helping you process administering to you. But then I think like each one of these pages, when I was on the plane, I literally like used the illustrations as a focal point and did every single breath prayer for my neighbors on the plane. Were like, what is she doing? But um, you know, I was kind of in, you know, praying in, you know, quietly. But every, every page, you know, there's something beautiful to focus on and to help me, you know, connect with the Lord as well. I think about my, um, my mother-in-law who's passed now, but she was, uh, an artist and she had lots and lots of different mediums that she used. And after she passed away, my sister-in-law created a coloring book out of, Oh,
Speaker 3 00:42:37 I love
Speaker 2 00:42:37 Her drawings. And so even, you know, we have over the years, just even that, you know, like I, I can't draw the things that created the coloring book, but I can sit down with a crayon or Matt pencil, you know, and, and in some of those same ways that just, you know, just, just slow me down, You know, it's
Speaker 3 00:42:54 Coloring is a great strategy too. That's another really good strategy to help with anxiety.
Speaker 2 00:42:59 Yeah, yeah. You know, to, to do that. So, um, yeah. So I sometimes I I I miss the boat when I have guests on who are also artists because I, it's sometimes hard for me to like gather the right language, uh, to help, uh, get that expression out. But thanks for indulging me in that. Um, as we start to wrap up, Jennifer, would you be willing to maybe give us like just a real short like practical tutorial and then Sure. In a breath prayer?
Speaker 3 00:43:30 Absolutely. Yeah. So yeah, breath prayer involves breath and prayer. And so the breathing, I usually start by breathing in and out a couple of times I did include like three different breathing exercises in the book. There are a lot of different types out there. I picked three of kind of the main popular ones. My favorite go-to really is just the inhale for five and exhale for five. And so that's the one I'll do today. Um, we think of how we breathe as like smelling the flowers and blowing out the candles. So you inhale through your nose and exhale through your mouth slowly. Um, excuse me, sorry. Um, so we'll start by just inhaling and exhaling and then we'll add the prayer in and I'll pick a prayer. Let's see. I'll do the one. It's based on Romans 1513. The verse says, I pray that God, the source of hope will fill you completely with joy and peace because you trust in him.
Speaker 3 00:44:23 Then you will overflow with confident hope through the power of the Holy Spirit. So the breath prayer we're gonna pray from that is we're gonna inhale God of hope, I trust you, and exhale fill me with joy and peace. And so what I'll do is I'll say the words, and of course, usually with breath prayer, they're prayed silently because we can't really talk as we inhale <laugh>. But I'll say the words and kind of guide us along if that's okay. All right. So we're gonna start by just inhaling five. So inhale and exhale, inhale and exhale, and now we'll pray. Inhale, God of hope. I trust you. Exhale, fill me with joy and peace. Inhale, God of hope. I trust you. Exhale, fill me with joy and peace. And once more inhale, God of hope I trust you. And exhale, fill me with joy and peace. And it's that simple.
Speaker 2 00:45:49 Thank you so much. Um, Jen, this, this blog that's updated once every couple of years, <laugh>, uh, where can we, where can we find that to
Speaker 3 00:45:59 Connect, connect with you? Yes. My website's little house studio.net or you can find more about the
[email protected], which will also take you to my website. So perfect. That might be easier to
Speaker 2 00:46:11 Remember. <laugh>. That's all right. I'll put 'em both in the show notes. Oh, cool. And that way people, they'll just be a click away. So, uh, again, Jennifer Tucker joined me today with we've chatted about her beautiful book and her beautiful story and family, um, and illustrations. The book is called Breath As Prayer, Calm Your Anxiety, Focus Your Mind and Renew Your Soul. And I will put the link so that people can order this on the web or on the show notes as well. Thank you Jen, so much for joining us and sharing your story with us.
Speaker 3 00:46:46 Well, thank you so much. This was such a, a gift and enjoy for me to be here with you.
Speaker 1 00:46:52 The links for all the resources mentioned in today's episode can be found in the show notes, music and podcast production by Seth bti. Be sure to give us a review on iTunes and subscribe at your favorite podcast listening app. You can also visit us at. That makes total sense.com.
