Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:07 Welcome to that makes total sense. A podcast dedicated to exploring God's generosity and justice. I'm Alexis besetting the Christian, aiming to ask good questions and encouraging you to do the same. Every one of us is wired by God to live out generosity and justice, but the how sometimes alludes us that makes total sense is a way for us to get together, posture ourselves as learners and challenge one another to practice generosity and justice in a tangible way every day. Hey guys, I am taking a deep breath. My guest Lindsay, and I have just been chatting about motherhood. So I'm kind of like still have the giggles a little bit, just, you know, kind of thinking back on some of these things that we have experienced as parents and what it's like to bring these little people into the world and try and function together in a household. Um, but I'm so excited because Lindsay is across the screen from me and her book has been in my hands for the last few days. And it has been such a gift. This is praying with our feet pursuing justice and healing on the streets by Lindsay cranks. Hey Lindsey, thanks for coming on.
Speaker 1 00:01:23 Thanks so much for having me. It's great to be here.
Speaker 0 00:01:26 I am so excited. We were chatting, like I said, you have a baby, so you, you birthed a baby and a book.
Speaker 1 00:01:32 Yes. I would not recommend doing this at the same time, but it happened so,
Speaker 0 00:01:40 And everyone's surviving. No, this is so good. I'm like just trying to fathom this because like, like we chatted about, so I'm in seminary where I go, we have quarter systems and so everyone's on spring break and I have spring break next week, but I have finals this week. And so we have four kids and they're all older, but still, I'm just, I find myself even right now. I'm just thinking like mommy's working, you know, like, it's like just trying to find that there's not a balance, but trying to, you know, how do you, you know, like trying to figure out how we even do that. So what was the timeline? When was the baby born and when was the book? Um, published?
Speaker 1 00:02:18 So the, the baby, um, I conceived right after I signed the contract. So the last bit and writing the book, I was sick for like four months. So I was trying to write in sick and then baby came, um, in July and then the birth, the birth of the book came in February. So last July we had the baby and then in February it had the book. So again, my whole pregnancy was really trying to figure out how to, how to have a human in the world and also how to finish a book. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 0 00:02:55 That is incredible. Well, I mean, it doesn't read if you were sick or sleep deprived, it reads beautifully. So thanks for that. Um, no, it really is. It's a gorgeous book. That cover is gorgeous. And, um, I'm, I'm also staring at this website for this, um, organization. That's just kind of threaded, um, throughout this book. And I'm wondering if you'll maybe kind of start our conversation by telling us about open table Nashville. You tell the birth story of open table Nashville in, um, in your book. So can you just tell us whatever you want us to know about that organization? We'll start there.
Speaker 1 00:03:33 Yeah. So, um, I I've been working on the streets for the last 14 years and 11 of those years have been with open table Nashville, uh, interfaith, homeless outreach, nonprofit that we, we started here in Nashville and, uh, what I love about open table Nashville. And the reason that we started it was that, you know, so many nonprofits and so many service groups really do the charity work and it's important to do. It's so important to make sure people have, um, food right now. It's so important to make sure they have rental assistance to make sure they have, um, clothes and tents and tarps and all the things. But we also have to be asking bigger questions about our society. Why is there so much homelessness and poverty? Why in one of the wealthiest nations in the world, do people not have housing and healthcare?
Speaker 1 00:04:24 And what I love about open table Nashville is that we're not just there to perpetuate the need for our own services. Um, we are really trying to work ourselves out of a job. We are really trying to move the needle on ending homelessness. Um, and we're doing that by, um, breaking cycles, disrupting cycles of poverty on the individual level, but also on the systemic level. Um, we get into what John Lewis would say is good trouble. Um, we have, we have all risked arrest. We have stood in solidarity with people facing, um, eviction, um, you know, campsite closures at the hands of police and city leaders. And, um, we've also buried a lot of folks, um, that died before their time. And we've also housed whole families. Um, we recently housed a mother who's pregnant with her second child and it's so exciting and I'm handing some of my baby stuff off to her, you know, it's so exciting to see her getting a chance to raise her family in a stable place. So, um, so yeah, we, um, we get into some good trouble here in Nashville and always love connecting with kindred spirits who in a framework of justice and not just of charity.
Speaker 0 00:05:44 Yeah. I love that distinction that you make of that in the book. And there was, there was one quote and now I'm going to forget who it was from. I think, I think you were quoting a theologian who said, um, you, when I, when I feed the poor, I'm called a Saint. And when I ask why they are poor, I'm called a communist. Right. And I bring that up in this space because, um, I think we just, we can't ignore the current culture that we're having this conversation inside of. Right. Like, um, I can relate to a lot of the things that you have said, um, I used to work in casework and state casework. Right. And it's, it's a thing like that's your dream is to work yourself out of a job, right. That you would not, that you wouldn't have to do, you know, this kind of thing.
Speaker 0 00:06:37 Um, and, and it feels, it feels hopeless. Um, you know, on some days, especially, well, especially in that setting, because it was like in kind of inside of some of these structures that we could see were broken, um, in a lot of ways. But I want to say that inside of this culture that we're living in now, and I would say, especially like in this Christian culture where that really is, I would say, I think I have been kind of surprised like, Oh my goodness, where did this rhetoric come from? And then kind of reading your book. It's like, Oh, well, it's always been there. Um, inside of the Christian community, it's always been there inside of the church. And I don't want to paint the person who would, who would call that theologian a communist. I don't want to paint that person in a bad light. What I would say maybe is we've always wrestled with this as a community, right? Like we've always wrestled with this St you know, mentality, this charity mentality in this justice, um, mentality, like there's always been, and I think there's a good tension to it, but, um, how are some of the ways that you personally have seen this kind of wrestling play out and what, what were some of the things that you've learned through those processes?
Speaker 1 00:07:52 You know, I think there's a lot of us that are really, um, comfortable in the status quo. And I think it's important to be aware of that. Um, a lot of our churches, um, a lot of our churches are places that are safe for us. Um, and, and the thing to remember is that the gospel isn't safe and the profits weren't safe, you know, there is a big, there's a big switch for me in my own faith journey. And that's the, that's where I'm most comfortable talking. I don't want to speak for others or throw others under the bus. Um, in my own faith journey, um, I was really taught from an early age that faith was a very private, personal matter, right. I prayed behind closed doors. I prayed and pews in the church building. Um, but my faith was about personal morality. It wasn't until later on that I realized when I, when I got out of the, um, small town that I was in and went to a place where I introduced to different ideas, and I could see poverty on a bigger scale, you know, in Nashville.
Speaker 1 00:09:00 Um, and I started rereading the profits and rereading the gospel that I realized our faith has social and political implications as well. It has public implications. It asks us the prophets, ask us to get our hands dirty, um, and the struggle for a better world. But a lot of people didn't like the profits, that's an understatement. Yeah. Reason of went right now. And I was just talking to a group about, you know, when is the season where we remember how Jesus was in the wilderness and he fasted for 40 days when he came out of the wilderness is when he goes to Nazareth and he unrolls the scroll of Isaiah and he reads to the community. You know, I have been sent to preach good news to the poor and, you know, release the prisoner and recover sight, the blind, these radical things. And they almost run him out of the town.
Speaker 1 00:09:56 So the people of faith, not just in churches, but all people of faith have always, um, struggled with the profits, right. Struggled with people who kind of push their comfort levels. Um, and I remember a long time ago in college, when I was coming across these ideas, I came across this anonymous quote that said we are called to be faithful, not comfortable. And that, that changed my life, you know, understanding that. And then, and then reading, really understanding, um, this thread that runs throughout scripture of God, choosing the poor, um, and God caring about the poor and, and advocating on, on their behalf and seeing them and using them in all the things. There's a preferential option for the poor and scripture. And it is a beautiful thing. Um, and there's a call to justice for God's people to bring the kingdom of God on earth as it is in heaven.
Speaker 1 00:11:02 And that, that's what kind of shook things up for me. And I found that, um, you know, some churches, um, really get behind that and they make their identity about justice and other churches want to Pat you on the back when you are serving the poor, but they want to run you out of their views and they want to silence you. And you talk about why people are poor, which is the impetus for the quote that you brought up. One of the stories got me into some trouble. So, um, again, there's a lot of good trouble in the book, but yeah. Um, but yeah, I really do believe that, um, faith isn't a personal, only a personal thing or, or something that causes us to be just safe. Yeah, no, it, it totally is
Speaker 0 00:11:43 Totally as a public thing. I think one of the things that I had, I had kind of heard before, but I'm kind of studying a little bit more deeply now in, um, can this new Testament focused class that I was in, but, you know, I think because all growing up in, in church and, and even in my young adulthood, you know, coming through church, there's a lot of, um, especially around this time, you know, we talk about Cesar, we talk about Rome or we talk about pilot, you know, and it's almost just like, they're like characters in a play or something. But when we talk about Jesus being this, like you said, like the gospels radical, like he's saying these things that are radical, and we talk about Jesus, like them, you know, his followers saying like, when are you going to do this? Like, when are you going to come?
Speaker 0 00:12:30 And you're going to declare yourself as King. And it's like, this was a big deal because Rome already had a King and his name wasn't Jesus. Right. Um, but the idea of the church forming this alternative political community, right. One who was going to live out gospel centered values as a group in sight of Rome, right? Like in these little pockets where Rome could clearly see who they were and what they were doing. And when the question was, why are you doing this? It was because Jesus is Lord because he's King. Right. And there's this again, this tension, right? Because the answer is no Caesar's King, right. And so there really is, um, a call to the church, not to only pray in our clauses. Jesus did instruct us to print our causes. I think it's important. You have a part in your book where you talk about is this, what's holding the world up, right.
Speaker 0 00:13:26 These monks, right. Yeah. Praying, praying on a regular basis, just, you know, where no one can see them. And, and man, we can't neglect that. Um, and at the same time, we have to realize exactly what you're saying, that this is a public faith that we have been called to. And, um, and living publicly as this alternative, uh, political community means sometimes disrupting what's happening around us in a really public way. Um, I want to ask you to take us back to one of the stories. I, I don't know if it was like, if you would maybe name it, like as your Genesis point or something, but I want you to take us back maybe to the paper dolls story in college, because I just, I just love, I just love what that represents. Can you tell us about that?
Speaker 1 00:14:19 Yeah. So early on, I was a bright eyed, bushy tailed, um, you know, college student. Um, and I, you know, I was escaping, coming to Nashville. I was escaping, um, you know, ghosts that haunted my family, um, you know, uh, have a lot of, um, struggles in my own family. But when I came to Nashville, um, I was ready to like make a comfortable life for myself and have a good job and like kind of move up in the world. Right? Well, I was sitting in a biblical ethics one day and our professor started reading through these statistics of global poverty and hunger for us. And one of the statistics that he said just literally stopped me in my tracks. I can remember the feeling of the chair, like the desk underneath me. And he said 29,000 children die every day from hunger and preventable diseases.
Speaker 1 00:15:18 And I just couldn't even fathom it. Like, what is 29,000? You could tell me 10 die. And I would think that's too many, you know, but I don't, I didn't even understand. And it was right before fall break, I was driving home fall break, and I was just haunted by that number. And I kept sitting with it and, you know, he had also, um, a nonprofit that on these issues. And so I was holding this with me when I came back from fall break, I talked to all the girls at our little service club that we had, you know, I was at a Christian university. A lot of people had social clubs. We had service clubs. Um, so am I service club? I said, y'all like, what are we going to do? Like, all these children are dying. Like we have to do something. And so we said, okay, we're going to do a, um, we're going to do a fast, a 30 hour famine that this organization was leading and we're going to draw attention. We're going to raise awareness on our campus about global poverty and hunger. And so for like for a couple months, we snipped out, we were like, how do we get people to realize 29,000? We're like, we're going to cut out 29,000 paper dolls
Speaker 0 00:16:29 Fathom that like, I can't even fathom like 2,900. Right. But I'm like a 29,000 paper dolls. I just can't even go there.
Speaker 1 00:16:39 Our fingers have band-aids all over them. Like we were in every like class break. Like we went to the movies and we'd snap. We'd like had movies in our dorms. We would just be like cutting paper dolls, frantically and having like paper bag or like baggies with like, you know, there's a hundred in this bag. There's 200 in this one. Anyway, we got as close to 29,000 as we could, because we were like, we have to, we have to wake people up. This was before, like everybody was glued to their smartphone. We didn't really even text them. Right. But people were still in a daze. And we posted one night we went into the student center unannounced and we put up 29,000 paper dolls, or as close to it as we could all the way up from the student center to the dining hall. So people would have to encounter them.
Speaker 1 00:17:22 And we put up signs saying what they were and saying, here's what you can do. You can get involved. Like we're going to make a different, we're going to do something. Um, and it was really impactful. And a lot of students got involved and some people in the administration were not pleased and they changed the rules about what you can and can't post in the student center. So, but, um, but that was a start for us. It was, we have to something, we have one life, people are suffering. How are we going to use our life to make a difference? And it went from there.
Speaker 0 00:17:58 One of the things that, um, and you, you mentioned it in your book, but I think I was first, first kind of awakened to this idea of the ministry of presence. Um, last year I read, um, Sarah Jackson's book and she has, uh, a, an organization that helps undocumented immigrants in Colorado. And she talked about us being God's hands and feet, but also being his eyes and ears, and really just seeing and hearing things that are happening around us. And I, I feel like that's kind of the inverse maybe of how you talk about a ministry of presence, but if that resonates with you, maybe could you talk about it on both sides, right? Like what does it mean to bear witness to what's happening, but also what does it mean just to be the ministry of presence for someone in that accompaniment kind of way, um, that you talk about in the book?
Speaker 1 00:19:12 Um, I remember when I was in seminary seminary, I came across a quote that said something like, um, you know, just sitting beside someone who's facing oppression, just sitting beside them, accompanying them, um, is a radical act is a radical act. Of course we need to go beyond sitting beside people. But what I have found in my 14 years of work is that just being a friend to someone, um, just being in someone's corner, that's how my friends on the streets put it. They were like miss a year in my corner back there. And that's the highest compliment I've ever gotten. Like you were in my corner when no one else was. Um, and you allowed me to fight my own battles, but you were there with me. Um, you know, the people that we come across, we work on the margins of society. On the other side, we work with people who are living in shanty towns, under bridges that are imprisoned for sleeping on a park bench.
Speaker 1 00:20:14 They are in and out of her hospital. They're living in bedbug, infested, slums and motels. They have no one in their corner. Um, everyone has left their corner and just being present to them and saying, I'm with you. I'm not going to abandon you. You matter to me, you matter to the world. You matter to God. Um, I am with you that it changes people's body chemistry on a cellular level. It makes them more to fight their own battles, to get their lives back, um, to, to really face what they need to face and to feel like they don't have to go it alone. Um, we can roll away barriers together for them to move toward healing and stability and housing. We can challenge a court ruling together, you know, we can advocate for them not to be discharged in the hospital together. This presence is healing in and of itself.
Speaker 1 00:21:16 The relationship of trust and mutuality is healing on both sides. So that's, that's the kind of accompany mint. It's sharing the journey with people through thick and thin. Um, and it's, it, it doesn't just benefit the person, but it has a tramp transformative effect on us as well. Um, then there is certainly, um, a role of bearing witness to what we're seeing and what we're encountering in the larger society. We talked to groups, church groups, student groups, business groups, all the time and in our line of work and we're educating them about what's going on. I had a group, um, from two weeks ago, I had a group, two groups actually from the wealthiest County in Tennessee, um, from Brentwood and Williamson County. And that is the wealthiest County in Tennessee. These folks have their needs met. They have everything they need and more, um, and they had no idea what the underside of society looks like.
Speaker 1 00:22:19 So we bear witness to the suffering. We take them literally with, with non pandemic times, I take them to see the, to see the places and meet the people. So they're hearing from the people themselves and not just me, I'm not a voice for the voiceless. You know, people have their own voices. Um, but, but that bearing witness is really important because if we're ever going to change things, we have to change people's hearts and minds as well as transform systems. Um, so changes relational, even systemic change takes relationships and a critical mass. So, um, I think that's what you're asking, but that's certainly, um, kind of where presence comes in for us if we do.
Speaker 0 00:23:04 Yeah. I mean, I think that that was probably this relational aspect was probably some, the, it may be the overarching theme that hit me the most in your writing, um, was a friendship, you know? Um, and I think there, there really is, you know, when you talk about, um, being, uh, responsible for someone versus being responsible to someone, right. And, and that, you know, kind of the difference in, in that relationship. But I think even, you know, the solidarity factor, right, there is a certain business relationship. And, and, and when I was working casework, you know, there's a certain business relationship and certain boundaries that are appropriate in that kind of setting, right. This is my client. This is who I am. We don't, I don't, they don't have my personal cell phone number, you know, things like this, because there, there are, uh, the, the state is a plethora of, of, uh, red tape.
Speaker 0 00:24:11 Right. It's, it's all of the things. But, um, but the thing that I feel like is just so different and is transformative about the work that you do is that it's based on solidarity and that you can't have, um, like friendship as a prerequisite. Right. Um, you know, or vice versa. It's just, I don't know how I would put it, but, um, but you can't really have one without the other, right. So like, you need to talk to, you're not a voice for the voiceless. Um, but you can be a conduit, you can be a matchmaker, right. Come meet these people, come meet these people, um, you know, have a conversation. So in your work, um, because I do even kind of feel like solidarity is, is a term that's kind of gaining a little bit of speed. And I think maybe some of us are trying to catch up to what that phrasing even means. But can you tell us in some of your experience, like how would you describe solidarity in this context?
Speaker 1 00:25:08 Solidarity is, um, I think I say somewhere in the book that solidarity is almost like a sexy term, right? It's like a really cool thing. And we want to be like, yeah, solidarity, we're in solidarity with you, but it is messy thing. It is a messy thing in it. And it asks something of us, right. Solidarity means I am in the boat with you and this boat is sinking. So let's figure it out together. Like I am, I, it, it, it requires different things of us at different times. Right. Um, for me, it has been comfortable very often. Um, in my life, I am in solidarity with people, um, who are facing social profiling, which means that the police targeted them because they're homeless. I'm in solidarity with people who are facing racial profiling, which is, which means I show up for racial justice issues.
Speaker 1 00:26:03 I try to educate people about that. And it means that we all make mistakes at some point too. But what it's meant for me over the years, solidarity is again, relational. So you can't have solidarity if you're not in relationship with some of the folks who are affected. And if in, in solidarity starts with proximity again, and it starts with relationships and then it builds. Sometimes it means sharing our resources. It means giving to groups. We, my husband and I, um, give to a lot of groups that do different kinds of justice work. Um, because we feel like that's, that is one of the ways that we can show solidarity. If we have extra resources or we get something extra, we weren't counting on, we share as much of it as we can. The tornado last year, there is a tornado in Nashville on March 3rd, very much second.
Speaker 1 00:26:59 And it destroyed our home and we lost our home. We lost our housing, what solidarity looked like, then our neighbors also lost their housing and our neighbors didn't have the same resources we did. So solidarity looked two ways to me. Then the first way it looked like was we, a lot of people like started a go fund me for us. And they gave us money. And we gave a lot of that money to neighbors and a group that was advocating in our neighborhood for affordable housing. So we were able to share our resources. What solidarity looked like to me that I didn't expect was that my friends who are unhoused called me and they said like, the first call I got was from a tent city resident that he said, Ms. Lindsay, I heard North Nashville was hit. Like, how are y'all doing Johnny need any help cleaning up up there?
Speaker 1 00:27:53 And the first person that showed up to our door to help us clean up and help us salvage what we could was one of my former friends from tent city. Who's now a board member with open table Nashville. He, he showed up first. He was like, you were there for me, I'm there for you that solidarity. But sometimes it also looks like having uncomfortable conversations with people that we need to bring into the work who aren't there. Um, it means taking the lead of other folks who don't look like us for directly affected by the issues we say we're advocating for. So it looks a lot of different ways, but what's interesting about solidarity is that, um, it is the most transformative thing. And it, I write in the book, you know, I accompanied people, but I found myself accompanied in return. You know, we, I was accompanied, I have been accompanied by my people who I have served, you know, they have supported me when I needed it. Um, and that's a beautiful thing. The groups we marched with, um, you know, when we March for racial justice, when we marched for the end of police killings of black and Brown people, um, they have also showed up those same groups have showed up and were fighting for affordable housing that's solidarity. And the book builds toward a story of solidarity that I'm really excited about. So, um, it's my favorite solidarity story that I'm going to save for the book, but, um, but yes, you will learn a lot about the messy,
Speaker 0 00:29:22 The dynamics of solidarity that I've gotten into over.
Speaker 1 00:29:26 Um, it is, it is really an honor to get to explore and experiment in that, um, with other people in other groups. And yeah,
Speaker 0 00:29:37 Part of what I hear in that is, um, is we're we recognize each other's strengths and weaknesses, and we recognize our excesses and our needs, right. Um, at the same time, and we're willing to, we're willing to let those puzzle pieces come together inside of community. Um, which is just, which is so beautiful. Um, but I have to tell you, I really am thankful that you mentioned your husband because I like totally was not thinking this, but I'm wondering if you, if, if, if you feel comfortable because Andrew is such a big part of the book and such a big part of the story, but before we started recording, I had told you that I, you know, I told my husband, so I'm like I have, um, my master's is in, um, you know, uh, systems and organizations and social justice. And, you know, I'm like, there's so much of me, right.
Speaker 0 00:30:29 That I'm just like, you know, I just feel like I'm an, I'm an activist at heart. I'm an advocate and I'm reading her book and I'm like, no, I'm not Lindsay is, but I am not. And I told my husband because he has the, we talked about this. He has the disruptor side of the activist that is necessary. And that's just, not me. I'm just, that's just not kinda my personality, but it made me think of these parts in the book where you and Andrew worked so well together because you have, like, your values are the same, but you have different strengths, um, when it comes to walking that out and what that looks like. So I was totally not planning on it, but can you just talk about like maybe the marriage dynamics of some of that, or the family dynamics of some of that, because I can, I can almost hear some of my friends or listeners that I've had the opportunity to speak with going, Oh my goodness, I love this book or this conversation was great, but I just don't know if, you know, or if, if my spouse would ever be like, like gung ho about, you know, this or that, but it's like, you know, he, or she feels this way, but, you know, and I just thought a lot of the stories you tell about you and Andrew were so beautiful in that way of you guys working together, but your strengths obviously being, um, having some similarities, but being quite different.
Speaker 1 00:31:45 Yes. It's, you know, the book on another level is a love story. Um, it's, you know, a love story between me and Andrew and also a love story between me and the people that I meet. Um, and, and this work, um, the work of justice. Um, but yes, I will say, I love that question. And those questions, I would say that, you know, the work of justice is not a solitary act. Um, it is not something you do alone. It, you know, if people paint pictures of an activist being like some soul like individual person, who's going out and raising their fist and like they're doing all these things by themselves, that is somebody that's going to burn out very quickly.
Speaker 1 00:32:30 They will not make it in the long haul, right. This kind of work is something you do in partnership and in community with others. And I have learned that the easy way, um, by having an amazing partner, but also the hard way of burning out myself. And what's beautiful about, um, about our marriage is that, um, you know, Andrew and I share the same values and commitments. Um, he does a lot, he's an academic, so he has a P his PhD in religion and, um, does a lot of teaching, but he's really focused in, on some of the academic approaches to looking at, um, the criminalization of race and poverty and the theologies that hold up, um, whiteness and private property and these other kind of capitalist institutions and finding ways to tear those down. Um, so he also does a lot of work though on coalitions, um, in town. So we share the same commitment, but we do different things and we've supported each other in times of, of, um, of different kinds of movements and mobilizations. So for instance, um, when I was really involved in the occupy movement here, um, I got arrested, but he had the keys to my car and he moved all the cars, you know, of all the people that got arrested. So we didn't get parking tickets.
Speaker 0 00:33:49 No, that's partnership. That's a real partnership. That's real permission,
Speaker 1 00:33:57 But no, and you know, and honestly it, hasn't all been in that. Talk about this in the book. It, hasn't all been like this beautiful, like, Oh, I'll support you and I'll support you. And we're like, perfect. And everything's great. Um, you know, he has given up things for me to do this work and I've given up things for him to be involved in certain things. And it's, you know, this work is really hard, but we know that we're committed to the long haul. So anybody that is trying to figure out their next steps, I would say, find your people who are in this with you, you know, maybe it's your partner. And if so, that's awesome. If it's not, if your partner's not there, who are your people? Is it a friend? Is it a group that's already doing the work and they want you to join them. And they're pumped about that. Like, who are your people gonna be? Who is your one person, you know, or your group going to be that does this work together because this work, it's a collective responsibility that we have to be our neighbors keeper. Um, it is not an individual one. And I have learned that again, the hard way. Um, yes,
Speaker 0 00:35:06 No, but I do. I know you, you kind of chuckled and I've, I've kind of left along with you, but I'm like, you really do share in the book, like your, your struggle, a lot of your struggles through this. And, and I think a lot of it resonated with me just, you know, because of that, um, that case working path past. Right. And, and I'm going, yeah, I totally get that. Right. Like I totally get how the burned out feeling. Right. I mean, I think it was, it was a similar turnaround. I think the people in my, um, the average turnaround was like two and a half to three years. Right. And then it's like, you're done and that's, that's nothing for a career, right? Like that's nothing for, for something in the professional space. That's no time at all. Um, but it really is just because it's hard, it's hard.
Speaker 0 00:35:53 And it's, it's, it's wearing, and there's secondary trauma, you know, a lot of times, um, for people who are involved in this kind of work, um, and it is driven by love. Um, but like, we, we have to, like you said, we have to find our people because this public faith that we kind of started with, um, is not just about, um, is not just about what we do for justice, but it's who we do it with. It's that, that that's also part of the public component. Um, I think is the, is the community portion of that? Um, yeah. I don't know. I feel like, Oh my goodness. I just feel like there's so much, but what, and I know there's some, you want to save for the book and like I told you before, I have like, I have like a chapter and a half left and I can't wait. Cause as soon as we get off, I'm going to finish it. But what did I not ask? Where did I not go? That you're like, ah, I don't, I don't want us to get off the phone and you, and you have something burning inside of you still. So, so what's, what's left. What do you wish? I would've asked him, let's talk about that before we go.
Speaker 1 00:37:05 You know, one of the common questions that I imagine some of your listeners would have too is, um, you know, I work on the streets. I work with people experiencing homelessness and there's so, so much that our society gets wrong about folks. And that's something that I was very intent on in the book is that I really wanted to make sure that people could see people's humanity and their stories, and really fall in love with them like I did. And I do not paint people on a romantic light. There are people who have hurt other people. And I'm clear about that. You know, there are, there's so much trauma on the streets and, you know, on the one hand I have seen, I have seen acts chapter two, like where the early church is like, you know, pulling all their resources and common sharing among all who have need, like they are being the early church.
Speaker 1 00:38:02 I have seen that more in a campsite and camp sites than I have seen in our churches. Like I have seen God on the margins, I've seen the loaves and fishes multiplied under Jefferson street bridge. I've seen like people get up and walk, you know, like I've seen miracles on the underside of our society and I've seen God on our margins more than I have seen in many of our faith communities. And at the same time, um, there is real trauma and real loss and real struggle. Um, but I wanted to, I'd love to talk for a minute about what I think people get wrong, but also about what we can do, because I think it's really normal. You know, the, the most common question we get asked when we do education stuff is, you know, I see people when I'm driving or I see people when I'm walking and I never know what to do, and I always feel so bad. And should I get my show you up? And so I'd love to spend just a minute just talking through that,
Speaker 0 00:38:57 Please, please. Because even what you've brought up so far, I think, I think part of it is, um, so thank you. Thank you for bringing that up because I don't want to over, I don't want to overlook it, um, at all. Um, but I probably just because of some of the background I have, it probably wasn't maybe quite as fresh as it, as it is for a lot of people. And so I definitely received have received an education in this book. I don't want to say that. I haven't, but I'm so thankful because I, yeah, I I'm like, gosh, I could just start it there. Um, but what you've already brought up about these two things, right? Like seeing these beautiful miracles and this and this, um, this beautiful community, but also, you know, the trauma and the loss and all of that. I think those two together are what make us in our humanity.
Speaker 0 00:39:44 Right. You know, when you, when you say there's so much, that's, you know, so many of us get wrong. Um, we often we often go to the trauma and the loss, um, but that's not all of who any of us are. Right. Like we are those, those things together. Right. Um, and so I love that you started there and please just, I mean, really, there's not like a time constraint for me, so I really would like for you to Dysport into us and just tell us anything you want us to know that that would be, um, helpful and inspiring and enlightening and, and edifying for us as we, as we try and walk through, um, this justice part of our faith.
Speaker 1 00:40:19 Absolutely. Um, yeah, I mean, I think you said it well, if there's more to all of us, then our worst day, our worst month, like if somebody, if I had been in public, like if I had had to be on a street corner for anyone to see me on my worst days, like I shutter to think of what people would have thought, you know, of me, like none of us want to be defined by that. And what we forget is that our friends on the streets are in the same place. They have not always been there and they have a story of how they got there, but what I'm, I, you know, I'm really interested in empowering all of us to feel like we are equipped to, um, show mercy in the, and I would even say show justice in the one-on-one interactions. Um, and not forget that kindness matters too.
Speaker 1 00:41:11 And compassion matters too, while we're fighting for these larger systems to change. And, you know, one of the things that, um, that I tell a lot of the groups that we talk to is when we see folks on the streets that can feel really uncomfortable. It can, we've all like most of us, at least I have been here, we've all driven up on to an on-ramp or an off-ramp and somebody is they're asking him to change and we act like we're on our phone or look ahead, or we try to pull up or whatever that is human it's because we're also stressed and we're not prepared, you know? So how can we be more prepared to show kindness and mercy and affirm someone's humanity and those interactions? Um, I think about the good Samaritan, right? Who not in the traditional sense of that story, but like, in the sense of like, he knew that road was treacherous.
Speaker 1 00:42:03 So he carried with him oil and wine to bind wounds and the bandages, he, he had the things on him cause he knew how treacherous the road was. How can we prepare ourselves? Right. So a lot of what we do, and maybe I'm sure you, and probably some of your listeners, right. Have packed their cars with things like always making sure you have socks or hand warmers in the winter or bottles of water or one of our favorite things to do with, um, volunteer groups that we kind of do education stuff with is to make little survival kits or blessing bags that they can take in their car and, and use that to start a relationship, use that to say, Hey, I have some supplies, what's your name? Like I see you all the time. I'm Lindsay, you know, could these be helpful that interaction affirms someone's dignity and humanity, you know, just even when we don't have things on us, when we see folks, if we can just make eye contact, if we can just smile and wave and say, I don't have anything today, but I'll look for you next week.
Speaker 1 00:43:07 Is there something that you're looking for? Is there something you need like I'm Lindsay, like I hope your day gets better just affirming someone's dignity. We don't realize how, again, that can literally change someone's body chemistry for folks that are used to being ignored for folks that are used to being invisible. Um, and you know, often victims of hate crimes. We have, I have women and who have had people throw out coffee on them on the mediums. You know, I've had my friends who work temp jobs the end of their day, they're walking back to their camp with their backpack after a grueling day and people yell out the car window, get a job. You lazy bum, you know, like we don't, we don't realize how much violence people face on a day-to-day basis. So just that interaction where we're affirming the image of God and them, their own humanity and their dignity is incredibly transformative. And it's a great teaching mechanism for our children, right? Like to, to say, you know what, we've got some extra resources, so we're going to put them together and make sure that we can give them out. And when we see people and if you have a couple of dollars, it's not going to make or break. So it's fine to give a couple of bucks. If that's something you're comfortable doing, if not, by all means, um, we're responsible for responding with,
Speaker 0 00:44:32 You know, that's what we, we're responsible for. I, that just ministered so much to me. Um, thank you for, um, for what you just said. I, I can't think of the exact, I surely cannot find the, the reference in my mind right now. And, and, and I'll butcher the albatross there proper, but, um, it's not good when we evade our eyes to the poor. Right. Like, and, and, and that is the, that's the scripture. And I don't, I don't think it's like, uh, you know, my, my Baptist guilt upbringing coming up, like I think it's, I think it's real, right. Like every time, you know, because we did, we, we live in Houston and so this is a, this is a real, every single day occurrence for us. Um, we don't live, you know, in the downtown, but we certainly don't live in the burbs.
Speaker 0 00:45:19 And so this is like, um, an everyday thing for, for myself and my family, um, and my kids, because that's part of what living in Houston means, especially when it's not, COVID, it's just being in the car, like we're in the car all the time. It's a sprawling Southern Texas city, you know? And, um, and the relational part though, because I can see myself and I can feel myself looking at my phone, or am I wearing my sunglasses? Or, you know, because there is this, if I don't have something to give physically, then this is going to be awkward. But what you just gave me is something to give them, which is, which is eye contact, which is affirmation, right. Which is exactly that, which is this, um, gosh, this recognition of their dignity, um, and that they bear the image of God. Um, wow.
Speaker 0 00:46:16 That's just like, that's so powerful. Um, because we do, we have, um, you know, years ago, um, until there was a slight confrontation, my husband got a little scared and he was like, maybe take a break. Um, but you know, we did, we would pack those. Um, we have, have like a bottle of water and a little pack of crackers because I'm like giving someone peanut butter crackers, and not a bottle of water is worse than that's like, that's like horrible, the worst thing ever. And then my kids would, um, would put Bible verses even before they could write, I would write the Bible verses and they would just draw, you know, on these little note cards and we'd bang them together with, um, rubber bands and we would just keep them in the car. Right. And, and, you know, every time we pass someone, if we had some in the car that was, that was our routine. That was, you know, what, what we did here. Um, and there was something that was, um, I don't know. I, I, now that I look back on it, I'm like, it kinda felt good. And I think it didn't probably do any harm, but I think what it lacked was that relational component that you just talked about that is so it's so formative for all of us to be able to engage in that way. Um, do you have a story or something that you could, that you could, uh, end this with?
Speaker 1 00:47:40 Yes, actually. Um, I have so many stories that even aren't in the book, um, you know, let me pick one, let me pick one. That's not in the book, the one, you know, if folks read the book, um, I want them to remember that, um, Papa Smurf is one of the characters in the book and
Speaker 0 00:47:59 He just, he just reemerged right now, like where I am like.
Speaker 1 00:48:05 So he, um, we are still after 14, 13, 13 years of friendship, we still talk every month or two. And he just sent me a huge package to my baby. He's he's, he's Papa Smurf. I met intensity who is in the book. I'm not going to give it away his story. He is a self appointed godfather.
Speaker 0 00:48:30 I love it. Best kind is a self-report
Speaker 1 00:48:35 It's a huge package in the mail. And it, um, it had this sign that said homelessness is not a crime because I am home. Um, and anyway, that's, I'm not going to tell you that story. The one story I tell me, because I don't want to give away the book. Um, the one story I want to tell you is actually about someone that we just lost. Um, someone who just died. My, I met a friend named Jerry, um, on the East side of town, he was living off some train tracks. He was in his sixties. He had never had housing on his own as an adult and his whole entire life. You spend most of his life institutionalized, um, and has so many issues of trauma. Um, he was very sick one night and his friends called me and they said, Ms. Lindsay, you have to come like Jerry.
Speaker 1 00:49:25 Jerry is either going to die here or you're going to get him out of here. And I met him and I took him to the hospital and we started working together on his housing. And five years ago, I think it was five, four and a half or five years ago. He moved into housing. We finally got him into a place and it was a beautiful apartment, a landlord, a private landlord tied his units so that some would be affordable, right, for people with no income or fixed income. This, this guy's at a local church. He's awesome. He tied his unit. So we actually could get him into a dignified unit, not a run down unit. And the projects are songs, which is really hard. We got them into unit. And the beautiful thing is a historian in there. Like we have been friends for the last five years and over the course, um, of his, the next five years, he was able to reunite with his family.
Speaker 1 00:50:20 So his daughter, so his daughter, he wasn't a part of his daughter's life. Um, because of the institutionalization and trauma that I spoke about when he got into housing, he was able to connect with her and say, I'm working on my staff and I want a relationship with you. And she was like, I want a relationship with you too. And she was someone who called me, um, the other week to tell me that Jerry had passed. And she said, Lindsay, the gift that you gave our family, the gift, the open table Nashville gave our family is a gift of healing. She said, Jerry died. My dad died, but he died in his own apartment. He died in his favorite armchair. He died, he friends were around, he was waiting on an egg sandwich from them. Like he has re reunited with his family. Like he died a dignified death.
Speaker 1 00:51:17 And she said, that's a gift. She said, people don't realize like when you provide affordable housing for someone you're not just changing that one life you're affecting the ripple effects go far beyond that one person. She said, I want, she was like, I'm going to write a letter. So everybody knows that open table, Nashville's the best. And that, you know, and all of this stuff just really sweet, but that, you know, last weekend I cleaned out Jerry's apartment and with one of his friends, because his daughter's in Chicago or in Illinois and, and all of this stuff he had, it was just so, so beautiful because all this stuff we're taking to our friends that are getting ready to move into housing and his life is continuing to give, you know, like housing heals, relationships heal like this work heals. And all of us think, you know, it should happen overnight and change never happens overnight, whether you're doing our kind of work of building relationships with folks for and housed, um, in fighting for housing justice or whether you're doing other kinds of social justice work, you know, that this work takes long-term commitment and the most incredible stories of transformation we see change day to day, you know, every day we used to change and sometimes we see setbacks, but we truly believe that the, the more and more people we have doing this work, the more and more we are bending the arc of the universe toward justice.
Speaker 1 00:52:45 Um, and we know that change will continue to happen because all of us are still in it. You know? So that's what I want to, I want to leave us just knowing that transformation is possible. Like this world is how it is, but it doesn't mean it's how it has to stay. Another world is possible, um, and is coming. And we can be a part of that and we can have joy in the transformation and be a part of it, or it can pass us by, but we have one life. And, you know, I think it's the poet Mary Oliver that says, what will you do with your one wild and precious life? So are we going to do with it? Um, and that's kinda what I want to leave you and your listeners with, what will you do with your one wild and precious life? Um, but the resources that we have with the, with, you know, even though some of us are strapped, exhausted, we still can be a part of this no matter where we are, um, or what we have.
Speaker 0 00:53:47 Um, thank you so much, Lindsay, that is beautiful. Um, where can we, um, check out and maybe you can get involved in the work that you guys are doing,
Speaker 1 00:54:01 Where, um, you know, for those of those of y'all who are not in Nashville, you heard me say y'all so, you know,
Speaker 0 00:54:09 That's all right. I'm in Texas, so we're good.
Speaker 1 00:54:11 That's perfect. Um, for all y'all, um, and we're around this area, you know, open table Nashville is a really great place to plug in, but we're also online, um, check us out and social media online. Um, what's the handle for that? Um, open table. Nashville is all one word also, there's a hashtag open table Nash, and then I'm on social media, Lindsay creeks, and we'd love to connect with people. Um, but certainly that's a good place. And also checking out the book. It is, it is full of raw, real fun, exciting, sad, beautiful stories. I hope so. That's a good place to check out as well.
Speaker 0 00:54:52 No, it is. I'll just give, I'll just give a little plug for the book I had, um, told Lindsay, and I may have mentioned it in this podcast. I don't know because my brain is a little bit fried, but I've been working on finals all week. It's Thursday, I think. And I looked to this book, like the moment I turned in my last final and I was still thrilled to read it. And so I feel like that's a pretty good, that's a, that's a, that's my review right there. Like, that's it, this is a place where I'm saying, I felt, um, this was, um, it was beautiful. It was a treat, um, to just be able to come and open this and feel like I could live vicariously through some of these stories. Um, but not to stop there, to be inspired, to, to live the story with the people around me as well. So thank you so much, Lindsay. This has been awesome.
Speaker 1 00:55:41 Yeah. So, so good to be with you all the best to all your listeners wishing you all the best from Nashville.
Speaker 0 00:55:47 Thank you. The links for all the resources mentioned in today's episode can be found in the show notes, music and podcast production by Seth B city. Be sure to give us a review on iTunes and subscribe at your favorite podcast listening app, you can also visit us at that. Makes total sense.com.
